Why is scratch considered a treat only?

[Onslow's Hens]

I am new to this site and this has probably been hashed out many times over but I would like some feedback from experienced flock folks on this idea.
I am not a fan of commercial feeds. I long ago switched my horses to a "home made mix" of whole grains and alfalfa/timothy with a complete equine vitamin mineral and they have absolutely BLOOMED! Been feeding it for a few years now and the results have been remarkable! I will NEVER go back to commercial horse feeds with all the mystery fillers.
So....... how can I switch my laying hens to a whole grain (with a complete chicken layer vitamin/mineral supplement) diet? I just can not get past all the weird "processed by-products" on the commercial labels. They don't even tell you WHAT grain is the Processed by-products from. What the heck is it??? Just seems to reason, if chickens LOVE scratch grains so very much - must be it is really good for them. Why would scratch be bad to feed all the time? Ingredients of a typical scratch are: Corn, Oats, Barley, sunflower seeds, millet and a few other whole grains. Why is that so bad? I understand it does not contain a complete multi vitamin/mineral but if you buy that and mix it into a scratch mix - wouldn't that be a great feed? Thoughts on this are very much appreciated. I most definately don't want to feed my hens anything that would ever hurt them but I just can't rationalize the junky mystery stuff in commercial feeds as being "better". Oyster Shell for calcium is always provided in a separate dish.
When you look at the ingredients in the super high prices Organic feeds - seems to be: Corn, Oats, Barely, Sunflower Seeds, Millet, alfalfa etc..... sound familiar??? Yep - same as scratch.

 

[Onslow's Hens]

Ops - forgot to add - Any suggestions on a good COMPLETE VITAMIN MINERAL SUPPLEMENT FOR LAYING HENS. I have seen one from Fertrel online. Any suggestions?

 

[EggSighted4Life]

Too little protein and amino acids, aside from the nutrient deficit you already note.

I'm addicted to chocolate and LOVE it, despite being diabetic. That doesn't make it good for me... so that "chickens love scratch means it MUST be good for them" theory don't fly here. I also happen to love chips and flour tortillas, cake, pie, peanut M n M's, red vines and so on.

Completely agree I hate the vagueness of ingredients on a most feeds. I discovered the reason they do this is because the product can change according to what's available at the time as far as grain goes and it's difficult to switch up the label every time.

I've never seen barley or alfalfa in scratch... but I don't look at it a lot either.

Peas are a good source of protein... however chickens are omnivores and NEED the amino acids that come from animal sources. They are added into our "vegetarian" feeds. I'm sure you can find a supplement that includes it.

Many people who feed New Country Organics or other whole type feeds like Scratch and Peck (a name brand) have discovered their birds will pick out the corn or other favorites while avoiding some... making for some major imbalance and issues. That is why many go with pelleted feeds instead of whole grains.

Sorry, I haven't looked into supplements. I use poultry nutri drench when needed, but don't think that's what your looking for. I know Rooster Booster has a lot of products so they *might* have one.

I feel your concern and questions!

Good luck finding something you like.

 

[Onslow's Hens]

Thanks. Your right - scratch does not usually contain alf and barley. my bad.
My hens get to free range everyday so I know they kind of gather and eat what their bodies need on their own. I didn't think about the point of them just picking out the favs and leaving the not so tasty items in a home mix. I can see that being a big problem with health in the long run. I keep my hens until mama nature calls them home so long term health is a concern for my flock. My farm is full of senior citizens living out the good life!
I guess there is no easy "home mix".

 

[Beer can]

I am new to this site and this has probably been hashed out many times over but I would like some feedback from experienced flock folks on this idea.
I am not a fan of commercial feeds. I long ago switched my horses to a "home made mix" of whole grains and alfalfa/timothy with a complete equine vitamin mineral and they have absolutely BLOOMED! Been feeding it for a few years now and the results have been remarkable! I will NEVER go back to commercial horse feeds with all the mystery fillers.
So....... how can I switch my laying hens to a whole grain (with a complete chicken layer vitamin/mineral supplement) diet? I just can not get past all the weird "processed by-products" on the commercial labels. They don't even tell you WHAT grain is the Processed by-products from. What the heck is it??? Just seems to reason, if chickens LOVE scratch grains so very much - must be it is really good for them. Why would scratch be bad to feed all the time? Ingredients of a typical scratch are: Corn, Oats, Barley, sunflower seeds, millet and a few other whole grains. Why is that so bad? I understand it does not contain a complete multi vitamin/mineral but if you buy that and mix it into a scratch mix - wouldn't that be a great feed? Thoughts on this are very much appreciated. I most definately don't want to feed my hens anything that would ever hurt them but I just can't rationalize the junky mystery stuff in commercial feeds as being "better". Oyster Shell for calcium is always provided in a separate dish.
When you look at the ingredients in the super high prices Organic feeds - seems to be: Corn, Oats, Barely, Sunflower Seeds, Millet, alfalfa etc..... sound familiar??? Yep - same as scratch.

Won't hurt them. Not recommended but not a big deal IMHO.
I've fed just scratch grains in pinch, fermented.
When I was a kid my parents had a large flock of RIRs, fed them nothing but a little cracked corn and they got most of their food from free ranging. Still grew good, laid good, plenty of eggs and meat in the freezer.
Would I recommend it? No.
Some people think they need to feed some cracked corn in the cold winter to keep them warm, ever look at a commercial feed bag? Main ingredient; corn. Why feed them extra? Lol.
I feed 17% layer mash from a local mill, lots of whole and cracked grains and legumes, powder, ferment it most the yr. It's a balanced diet, $10 for 50lbs. Feed no treats besides table scraps, and they get kale or dandelion greens often, sometimes some extra protein. When I process in the winter they are plenty fat, don't think there is any need for extra corn or treats.

You'll get plenty of 'opinions', and I'll admit the ones that say feed a balanced commercial or homemade feed and everything else in moderation as a treat are right, to each their own, do what you see works for you and your birds.

Case in point; show me actual scientific evidence or study that fermented feed is better for chickens. I've found none. Only controlled large study I've found on it shows the opposite.
I'll continue to ferment though anyway. They get the good bacteria, probiotics/prebiotics. And in my experience a big savings in feed cost $$. They eat less. All the evidence I need.
I've been told you can get the same prebiotics etc from commercial Purina feed. Yeah at $18 bag, I'm paying $10, I'll continue to ferment, have good healthy birds.

If you can grow your own, check out Native American 'indian corn'. More vitamins nutrients etc, and four times the protein compared to commercial field corn.
I'm going to grow a large patch to add to their feed next yr.

 

[Lauravonsmurf]

Check out fermented feed and I know I saw a thread on nutrition some place on BYC...

They great feed debate....

Things to keep in mind:

Breed genetics effects what feed the birds need for example some breeds need more protein or extra oil in their diets, others breeds do good on corn while others might die from corn. Some need specific ratios at different times or they grow incorrectly. Thus you have to tweak the in general nutrition as needed.

Cost, some folks want to do cheapest to maximize cost to production... budget may or may not be an issue. I find flock size effects how budget conscious people get, not judging just an observation.

Too much corn in the diet can cause chicken obesity and effect laying and cause lame birds that people think are sick and they kill rather than putting bird on diet, only after they kill do they realize how much fat is on bird.

For example my two hatchery EEs required more protein and a bit more oil in their diets than the supposedly perfect nutrition balanced layer feed. I thus mix feeds otherwise my girls feather quality goes downhill, combs get pale and the dominate one starts picking out feathers to eat, nearly lost one bird to that malnutrition induced behavior problem. On the new diet they are happy and don’t do this now. I mix 1 part each Scratch, Layer Crumbles & a higher protein feed such as Game or even Chick Crumbles. I supplement with veggies, peppers, kelp, Black Sunflowers, Wild Bird Seed and other stuff. I have not reached the point of making from scratch everything. I do allow them to free range the yard as well so they get exercise and can hunt for bugs or worms.

I can say we had a pot luck breakfast at work I brought eggs and so did another coworker who has a flock... my eggs scrambled up near neon yellow hers scrambled up pale yellow. Based on us discussing differences in feed I know that is why, she does not supplement the layers as that is expensive. We both allow the birds to roam.

Nutrition in nutrition out is my thought, plus as mine do get a bit of corn (not too much or they will get fat) that probably effects egg color based on my poking about. If you have a yellow legged breed whose legs are turning pale than you need to add yellow/ orange foods to diet for example.

So just start poking around and then fiddle with a basic feed. Some folks do mix their feed from scratch... longtail breed keepers often do, some game fowl keepers do as well, along with folks trying to go all natural (there is a thread for that).

Welcome to BYC

 

[lazy gardener]

Economically, for most people, it's cheaper to buy a blended feed from the feed store. But, it sounds like you are motivated to do better. If you can do a home blend that works out to at least 16% protein, provides all the essential nutrients, and don't mind the extra cost and work, then go for it. I suggest that you start with the Fertrell. I've never used it, never made my own feed. But, I do ferment, and sprout. Both make great additions to boost nutrients. Check with @rjohns39 . He makes his own feed, I think.

 

[JaeG]

I've been looking into feed recently and found a lot of information about feeding whole grains for better health. Feeding whole grains increases the size of the gizzard, making it more efficient and hostile to salmonella. Chickens are also very good at eating what they need.

http://www.lrrd.org/lrrd17/4/pous17045.htm
http://www.sterlingcenterfarm.com/Feeding/Wholegraindiet.htm
https://www.gardenbetty.com/garden-bettys-homemade-whole-grain-chicken-feed/
https://academic.oup.com/ps/article/87/3/405/1494457

 

[cottontail farm]

This probably isn't going to be popular but I feed mostly scratch/corn from the local mill. I do a mix of 50 lb cracked corn 50 lb scratch and 50 lb of layer pellets. Plus all of our household scraps. This is the most economical way to keep my flock and with the kitchen scraps I firmly believe that they have a more varied and healthy diet then if I fed only commercial feed.

 

[EggSighted4Life]

Case in point; show me actual scientific evidence or study that fermented feed is better for chickens. I've found none. Only controlled large study I've found on it shows the opposite.
I'll continue to ferment though anyway. They get the good bacteria, probiotics/prebiotics.

You make a lot of good points.

I used to ferment two years but no longer do... as the feed IS balanced and fermenting IS changing something in that balance. Purina actually own a large portion of brands, even generic ones. Many of those do also include the fermented by products (gotta read the label), which as far as I know is a campaign for the beer companies to dispose of their spent grains. My saving was some (maybe 10%, but the larger the flock get it becomes WAY more than work then not to save not not enough to cover my time and effort).. but NOT the 30% many claim. My biggest saving comes from free range... on GOOD pasture, not the irrigated desert lot I used to live on in the city. Oh boy... if I could get feed for $10/bag... I can't even begin to imagine how much WORSE I would be at chicken math! That Purina ACTUALLY IS my cheapest feed available.

Love, love, love scientific studies! Share if you can, please?