Will Cornish X live normal lives if you don't kill them ever?

[dancingbear]

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Well, that's a pretty narrow, judgmental, and self-righteous statement. Everybody who manages to scrape up enough to buy some land is wealthy, got that way by ruining the environment, and are all pretending to live a self-sustaining lifestyle, (which isn't even truly possible, but many of us are doing what we can to improve the balance. That counts, regardless of your opinion) while everybody else is really ethically superior and eating CAFO chicken?

I'll be sure and tell my DH that we're wealthy. And that we are wealthy because we raped the planet. Boy, will he be surprised. Maybe we should get rid of his 18 year old Ford Escort (that still gets about 30 MPG, thank you very much) and my 12 year old Suzuki (36 MPG) and run out and by a new SUV! Maybe I can afford all those diamonds and furs, while we're at it! I just never knew we were so financially well off! I'll be sure and say hi to Donald Trump for you, if he happens to drop by to help me shovel chicken manure or something.

 

[Buster52]

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Well, that's a pretty narrow, judgmental, and self-righteous statement.

He was talking about me, I think. I seem to have hit a nerve with my personal opinion about the Cornish Cross.

Or maybe it is about my advocacy of sustainable living. I don't exactly feel lonely on that subject here, though. One guy believed in it so much he created a whole forum on it . Heck, he runs several forums.

One of which is about chickens.

Anyway, I don't think it was a general comment about all sustainable livers with acreage. Loved your post all the same, though. Our newest car is a 16 year old Honda Accord. I think it's book value is almost $1,700.

Us wealthy folk must keep up appearances.

 

[SteveH]

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Well, that's a pretty narrow, judgmental, and self-righteous statement. Everybody who manages to scrape up enough to buy some land is wealthy, got that way by ruining the environment, and are all pretending to live a self-sustaining lifestyle, (which isn't even truly possible, but many of us are doing what we can to improve the balance. That counts, regardless of your opinion) while everybody else is really ethically superior and eating CAFO chicken?

I'll be sure and tell my DH that we're wealthy. And that we are wealthy because we raped the planet. Boy, will he be surprised. Maybe we should get rid of his 18 year old Ford Escort (that still gets about 30 MPG, thank you very much) and my 12 year old Suzuki (36 MPG) and run out and by a new SUV! Maybe I can afford all those diamonds and furs, while we're at it! I just never knew we were so financially well off! I'll be sure and say hi to Donald Trump for you, if he happens to drop by to help me shovel chicken manure or something.

In retrospect I realize that statement went overboard , and was prompted by my frustration at a person's constant highjack attempts at the mention of Cornish X .
I do have a very small financial resource [ yes , gained at the expence of our planet ] which I'm trying to convert into a very modest country home . I currently live in a city that has a two pet ordinance and chickens are classified as banned livestock . I really want to breed and raise chickens for both food and pleasure , but currently the only possible way I can afford to eat meat is due to confinement feeding ; and there are millions of others in the same boat . There are many people yelling " Change the laws !!!! " which may be good thing . But even if this city allows me to own some chickens , I'm eating chicken purchased at 49 cents per pound and hamburger purchased at 99 cents per pound this week and can't raise my own on this small piece of property at that price ; couldn't even give animals proper care on an acre or two at that price . I support those who wish to live a more simple , country life , but also support raising meat birds in conefinement , whether it be pasture or indoor pens .
The Cornish X has been bred to live a short , productive life in confinement . It can be used for breeding another chicken more suited to backyard or farmyard life ; but I doubt that one is doing the Cornish X a favor by " rescueing " it from its destined purpose once its been given the life it is bred to live .

ETA : By the way , I drive an Asto Van purchased for $450 six years ago . It doesn't get the milage I would like , but was the best I could find that would haul me , my friends in need , my animal crates , garden plants , and firewood ; and it put me a month behind on my power bill and phone bill to purchase it . This year I built a two axle trailer to pull behind it and add to the payload per gallon . I feel blessed , I have friends living in homeless shelters and have known of those living in their vehicles or sneaking into a city park at night to sleep in the woods there .

 

[Buster52]

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Very interesting article, Jeff. Thanks for the link.

 

[dancingbear]

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Ok, I get that, in fact I've been there and done that. All of that. I went through some incredibly difficult times, some of which occurred while I was a single parent, some before that. I feel like I'm doing ok now, even though we live on a tight budget. We produce more of our own food every year, and this year I'm trying out selling at the Farmer's Market, for the first time.

I understand that people do whatever they need to in order to live, including buying commercially raised meat. I've certainly bought plenty of it, still buy some, just not much anymore, and I'm grateful that I have the opportunity to raise my own.

There's no point in feeling guilty for having a job. Not all jobs are based on things that are inherently bad for the planet, some are better, some are worse. If you feel your job is really horrible, and that you are destroying the planet, I hope you find a way to change that, some day. There are small things we can do that are helpful, like using low-flow shower heads. Some water districts even give those out free, if you ask. We also have an additional lever on ours that you can turn, (I think it was about 4 bucks at Lowe's) that shuts the water down to a trickle while you're soaping up or lathering your hair, so you don't have gallons of water pouring down the drain while you stand back out of the flow. You save water and reduce your bill. CFL's can save some bucks, too. Our electric bill dropped by about $40 a month, just by replacing the energy-eating back porch light with a CFL, and changing some more lights in the house. Our ceiling fan lights have to be incandescent, the CFL's mess them up, and the start flickering. So we put a couple of lamps with CFL's to use instead of the overhead in the living room. We usually only have one of them on, so that's 23 watts instead of 120.

Just do what you can. If you can recycle, or use less water, or power, or compost your kitchen scraps, what ever. There's no point feeling guilty about any of it, even less to think that anybody that's not in the same boat, is some sort of villain. There's plenty of us that are just barely out of that boat. We hope to pay off the mortgage in time for DH to retire when he's old enough. Meanwhile, this farm belongs to us and the bank.

Peace.

 

[95yj]

Getting back to the original question. If you are buying a cornish cross from an auction its not gonna live long even if you limit food/exercise it/liposuccion it or whatever. "Show" cornish crosses are raised massive, and the damage is already done, the liver and arteries are probably too far gone and theirs not much you can do. I'm not entirely sure why you would want to anyway, these birds were bred for meat and while they did spend their lives getting stuffed with food their just meeting their destiny, not all animals are pets. If your so chinzy about animals dying become a vegetarian if you aren't already. Or find someone to show you the slaughter process, its really not as bad as most people think. After all, the chicken can't feel any of it.

I don't know if i have much to contribute, I'm still in high school, live with my parents and have always lived a pretty privileged life. We live in a large town, it used to be a tiny farm town then it grew into an almost suburb, alot of the people living around here are extremely wealthy, I'm kinda the redneck kid at school. Most people live in massive houses, mcmansions, on 3 or 4 acre plots of perfectly groomed grass and drive giant SUV's and mercedi's. My family has a comparitively small house and land plot in a small neighborhood. We raise chickens on our front lawn and have 6 or 7 food producing gardens. In my neighborhood nobody cares, if i lived in one of the other ones that might cause problems but my neighborhoods been around for awhile. The thing that bothers me most about the kids I go to school with is that they don't realize how privileged they are and that they are ALWAYS complaining. Thats what money does to you. I feel like if you have a few acres you should raise a garden, or grow a couple chickens. I just wonder how many of those families come home from work, microwave a dinner and watch tv for 5 hours. Long story short, if you got some land, and you can raise a garden or some chickens, or whatever, go for it.

 

[dancingbear]

95yj, good post! I'd like to correct 1 small error and disagree on another 2 others, but overall, an excellent post, IMO.

First disagreement, I think you have a lot to contribute! You can tell people how your family raises chickens in the front yard, and answer questions for those who wish to do likewise! And the food plot is great, too, you're well ahead of the game, getting this kind of a start from your family. You're starting out with a good knowledge base on how to raise your own food. These days, very few get that, so hooray for you and your family!

The small error: "Chintzy", unless you're referring to fabric, means stingy or miserly, such as one who won't share things. A more appropriate word might be "squeamish", or something like it. (I apologize in advance if this bugs you. I blame it on my "inner English teacher", who makes plenty of her own errors, BTW. Please feel free to correct me if you see one.)

The 2nd disagreement is the idea that "the chickens can't feel any of it" when being slaughtered. I disagree with that, chickens feel pain/discomfort just like any other living thing. If done correctly though, they won't feel much, and it'll be over in a few seconds. If you've got some way to stun them before slaughter, then you're right, they won't feel it, but most people butchering a bird at home don't stun.

I have a dear friend who is one of the privileged few who has always had a financially easy life. The family has other ways to torment each other, but deprivation isn't one of them. The family's well-off, always a big, fancy house, etc. He doesn't realize how lucky he is, either, like the families you described. Where they live, you can't even put up a clothesline, because somebody might think it's unsightly. Other than flower gardens, hardly anybody there grows anything at all. My friend's mom usually has a couple of tomato plants in tasteful half-barrel planters, unfortunately she drenches them with pesticide.

My friend has somehow managed to grow up like this, and still be environmentally aware, and very earth-connected. He has a much better understanding of things than most, which amazes me, especially after meeting his family. He takes egg orders from his neighbors for me. They value my free-range eggs, but dump chemicals on their lawns. Go figure.

I don't think it's having money that does this to people, (I know plenty of poor folks who are just as bad about wasting what little they have) I think it's more growing up disconnected from the whole "circle of life" concept, and not having the understanding of where things come from, and not having a sense of responsibility about where their own things come from, including the power that gets wasted running all kinds of lights, TV's, computers, etc., even when nobody's using them. People can be incredibly wasteful, and that's where a significant part of our problems come from, with food, energy, and resources in general.

Anyway, yeah, you have plenty to contribute, I'm very glad you're a part of BYC. I hope to see a lot of posts from you in the future!

 

[Michele S]

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Did my husband get on here and write this? I force him to starve and exercise. I am totally keeping him alive against his will. How is that different than keeping a fat chicken alive? I've been starving since I was twelve, should someone kill me to put me out of my misery? I don't really get the controversy over these chickens. They're just birds.

 

[jaku]

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Did my husband get on here and write this? I force him to starve and exercise. I am totally keeping him alive against his will. How is that different than keeping a fat chicken alive? I've been starving since I was twelve, should someone kill me to put me out of my misery? I don't really get the controversy over these chickens. They're just birds.

Probably one of the best posts I've read in a long time. Very well put.

 

[Bossroo]

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Did my husband get on here and write this? I force him to starve and exercise. I am totally keeping him alive against his will. How is that different than keeping a fat chicken alive? I've been starving since I was twelve, should someone kill me to put me out of my misery? I don't really get the controversy over these chickens. They're just birds.

Yea!!!

for understanding that some breeds of chickens were selected for certain desired traits and live to fulfill that promise . Now, these new chickens may not live or act or look like all the rest of the chickens that came before these chickens. The Leghorn was selected for laying the most eggs per year than any other type of chicken but then 99.9% of the hens will not go broody and hatch their own chicks, but they are still chickens.

Evolution, only faster due to man's need for more eggs.