will i kill them??

[UrbanMama]

Quote:
And

This is probably not going to work. And, if you don't kill the control, you don't have a control, as you need to take out the bones and the skin from the experimental and control and weigh them post hatch for results that have any meaning. Since the net building blocks of carbon mass will ideally be equal in all eggs, just adding vitamins will only redistribute the carbon in the tissues. For there to be any tangible results, you need to take out the tissues you are targeting.

Perhaps you look into embryology a bit first. The developing embryo by day 5 will be about the size of a lima bean. That size changes over time and will result in a chick under an ounce at hatch. The starting egg may weigh more than an ounce, but if I remember right, something like 20% of the mass is lost.

Oh... and you measure force. F=ma, where acceleration is our gravity and mass is the amount of the egg. Most use weight in place of force when dealing with stuff on the earth.

All I have to say is ....

 

[Suellyn]

Original question was: will I kill them? (by weighing)
No you might not kill them by weighing if you are careful, but yes you will probably kill them by piercing the shell which will most likely cause a bacterial infection/death long before hatching.

Some other possible flaws to think about:

-the egg will be purposefully damaged by piercing shell, how does this play into the study? A damaged egg is not, in my opinion, very comparable to the non-damaged "controls". And if shell of controls are damaged to prevent this variable, then ACTUAL efficacy of vitamins is still unknown since we are dealing with flawed/seriously compromised eggs to begin with. (!)

-"Bigger" in the egg is NOT always "BETTER"!!! Chicks that are too large for the egg often cannot maneuver well enough to pip/zip/hatch. Overly large chicks get stuck and die in the egg. So attempting to make larger chicks is an excercise in futility unless you make larger eggs to accomodate them! Oh, and I guess larger chickens to lay them... (or at least chickens with oversized vents...)

-The embryo is not the only thing in there... how will you account for the variables of different air cell sizes, yolk size, etc...? this question may have already been addressed, but if it WAS, then I didn't understand the answer

... Most of the research I have done has been on animal behavior modification, not physics...

 

[hnbubz]

they will not be killed by the injection wihth very thin needles, people inject them with vaccines and such.

the controlled group gets injected with saline solution

your right, but i was also hoping for them to be stronger

they will be weighed before hand and after the injection then i take the average weight increase for each egg, then average it out based on the group (ex: A1 got an average increase of 1 and A2 got an average increase of 3 then i average the two out) and compare it to the controlled average gain.

 

[redhen]

honestly..listen to silkiechicken...look into it more...and REALLY know what you are doing...otherwise its just pointless killing....good luck, Wendy

 

[silkiechicken]

Quote:
Fact: Eggs LOSE weight as they are incubated.

You NEED to weigh the tissues of interest. Weigh the skull, and two leg bones from each bird of test AND control to measure bone mass. Measure 1 square inch of dorsal or ventral skin to determine any changes in skin growth.

You need a way to quantify stronger too.

If you are interested in effects of various things on embryo growth and devlopment, I suggest doing a literature search in pubmed.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/

A very useful site if you ever really get into science. (Working on my PhD in Molecular and Cellular biology. Concentration = Developmental Biology)

If you find a abstract of interest, go to your local research university and likely you will be able to get open access to the journals the university is subscribed to. If it is not yet an online journal, a librarian can get it for you.

Kudos for being interested in science, just have to think through your expt a bit more.

 

[Suellyn]

Quote:
"Stronger" is pretty subjective, how would you define & measure it?

And anyway:

You said that all surviving chicks will be killed (except for the controls), 48 hours prior to hatch.

You will never know if they were "stronger".

Even if your experiment was a "success" in terms of increasing mass, you will never know if they would have been able to hatch, or if they would have died in the egg.

So I don't see how this experiment can be of value, even speaking from a strictly scientific point of view, it seems to be fatally flawed at the most basic level. !!??

And I do agree that your interest in science is commendable, but please do like SilkieChicken says and research/think it thru a bit more.

 

[griffin45]

Some where on here I read...
It took Thomas Edison over 2000 trys to invent the light bulb. When he was questioned about that fact he said, I learned over 2000 ways on how not to make a light bulb. He didn't say he screwed up over 2000 times! If you are learning keep going! If you get nothing from the experiment whats the point?

Chris