Will layer feed harm a non-layer?

[Ccort]

Three of my girls have died from Fatty Liver, out of nine. They eat All Flock food. I don't give much in the way of treats. Meanwhile, one of consistently laying eggs with a thin shell, despite 25/7 access to oyster shell.

Please note...one is spayed and on a form of birth control. She has a reproductive disease and cannot lay.

Should I switch them to a Layer feed? Would Layer feed harm the one non-layer?

 

[U_Stormcrow]

Over short time scales, Layer feed is not likely to harm adult birds in ways you are likely to recognize, particularly older adult birds. Excess calcium is most damaging to hatchlings and juveniles. It builds up in roosters and non- (or infrequent) layers over time, the first symtoms you are likely to recognize are often taken as signs of age or injury - things like gout. Opening them up will show yet more damage, if you know what to look for.

I feed my Roos after 8-12 weeks a mix that's about 2.6-2.8% average calcium, more than an All Flock, less than a Layer. I do it for cost reasons. At 18 months, I can usually see internal symptoms in at least some of the roos, though I have yet to see clear external evidence of excess calcium. I butcher early and often, only keep a couple roos to that age, so I can project what is likely to happen with more calcium, or longer time scales, but I've not seen it first hand.

That said, there is no commercial all flock I am aware of which has been reported to cause that incidence of fatty liver - if there was, it would be pulled from the market.

"I don't give much in the way of treats" is, frankly, suggestive that "much" is "too much". Are they able to get feed from sources other than the All Flock and the treats you offer? I.E. do they free range, and what do they free range??

 

[Ccort]

Over short time scales, Layer feed is not likely to harm adult birds in ways you are likely to recognize, particularly older adult birds. Excess calcium is most damaging to hatchlings and juveniles. It builds up in roosters and non- (or infrequent) layers over time, the first symtoms you are likely to recognize are often taken as signs of age or injury - things like gout. Opening them up will show yet more damage, if you know what to look for.

I feed my Roos after 8-12 weeks a mix that's about 2.6-2.8% average calcium, more than an All Flock, less than a Layer. I do it for cost reasons. At 18 months, I can usually see internal symptoms in at least some of the roos, though I have yet to see clear external evidence of excess calcium. I butcher early and often, only keep a couple roos to that age, so I can project what is likely to happen with more calcium, or longer time scales, but I've not seen it first hand.

That said, there is no commercial all flock I am aware of which has been reported to cause that incidence of fatty liver - if there was, it would be pulled from the market.

"I don't give much in the way of treats" is, frankly, suggestive that "much" is "too much". Are they able to get feed from sources other than the All Flock and the treats you offer? I.E. do they free range, and what do they free range??

Thanks for the quick reply.

I was giving treats one time a week which were typically one of these; kale, yellow squash, bananas, sunflower seeds, mash. Within the last couple of weeks or so, I stopped all treats.

They stay in a run during the week until 240-then they free range until 8pm. On weekends, they start free ranging at about noon and during the summer, they'll free range pretty much every single day starting at noon.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

Both the bananas and the sunflower seeds can contribute to the flh due to their high sugars/fats. Likely there is a high calorie source in the area they are ranging as well.

All you can do is monitor and adjust as needed. In better news, the free ranging will most likely help buffer the effects of the excess calcium for the non layers, somewhat.

 

[Ccort]

Both the bananas and the sunflower seeds can contribute to the flh due to their high sugars/fats. Likely there is a high calorie source in the area they are ranging as well.

All you can do is monitor and adjust as needed. In better news, the free ranging will most likely help buffer the effects of the excess calcium for the non layers, somewhat.

I still have them on All Flock right now. Would that be best?

 

[U_Stormcrow]

All Flock is my recommend for most keepers under most circumstances. Going to layer likely won't help in any meaningful way with FLH.

 

[Marle94]

I have four hens…two Golden Comets who have laid eggs all winter and two Bantam Seramas who laid one egg each after I brought them home and none since (end of September.) I’ve been feeding 16%layer feed and was hoping the Seramas would lay again once they settled down from the move. But no such luck. Now, after reading on here various articles about non layers not needing layer feed, what should they be getting and how do I feed separately? I don’t have a way to keep them separate as they share a coop and run. Will they choose the right food if I put separate feeders out?

 

[Brooks_]

I have four hens…two Golden Comets who have laid eggs all winter and two Bantam Seramas who laid one egg each after I brought them home and none since (end of September.) I’ve been feeding 16%layer feed and was hoping the Seramas would lay again once they settled down from the move. But no such luck. Now, after reading on here various articles about non layers not needing layer feed, what should they be getting and how do I feed separately? I don’t have a way to keep them separate as they share a coop and run. Will they choose the right food if I put separate feeders out?

Many here, myself included, feed all flock/flock raiser or starter/grower with oyster shell on the side. The birds are generally very good self regulating the calcium with oyster shell. Then you don't have to worry about who eats what - it's fine for all.

As to why some are laying and others not - a little more back story is needed. Ages, is it winter where you are (adding your general location to your profile helps here as climate is almost always a factor), coop/run space, etc