Winter Feed Cost and Growing Fodder

[HeatherKellyB]

Since birds, unlike humans, don't seem to get up in the middle of the night for a snack, leaving feed out overnight is generally disfavored - it attracts critters generally not beneficial.

and most of us who don't free feed try to adjust feedings each day so that a bare minimum (if any) is out overnight, or available for more than 24 hours - though in most climates, it should be "good" (not contaminated to any significant degree) for several days, at least.

That makes sense. Thank you! I have been leaving it lately because I am dropping my daughter off at school at daylight. With the nights being so long, I hate for them to have to wait for me to get back to have anything to eat. I know it's not the best practice and actually agree with you completely, but I hate for them to have such a long night, especially the Bantams.

 

[Molpet]

Do you offer the same batches until they're gone? I guess I'm mostly curious about the feed going bad. That scares me with feeding mash but my girls absolutely love it. I always make sure to smell it (? Not really sure if that is an indication of anything but it makes me feel better, I guess) and visually make sure it doesn't have a film or anything off with it that would be obvious. I've thought about trying to ferment feed as I feel like my hens would really like it

I put the old on top of the new. I go through over a 5 gallon a day, so it's eaten up. I have three 5 gallon buckets going

 

[HeatherKellyB]

I put the old on top of the new. I go through over a 5 gallon a day, so it's eaten up. I have three 5 gallon buckets going

That makes sense. Thank you for taking the time to answer my question

 

[U_Stormcrow]

That makes sense. Thank you! I have been leaving it lately because I am dropping my daughter off at school at daylight. With the nights being so long, I hate for them to have to wait for me to get back to have anything to eat. I know it's not the best practice and actually agree with you completely, but I hate for them to have such a long night, especially the Bantams.

There is no "one right way" or we'd all be doing it. Well, except for that one guy, because there's always that one guy....

There are thousands of wrong ways.

But mostly, its risk managment and finding ways that work for you. I'd place your practice into the same box as my not feeding my birds the way I usually recommend others do theirs. Its not optimum, we know it, we've considered the downsides, and decided it works well under the totality of our individual circumstances, at a cost we are willing to pay. Can't ask for more than that.

 

[HeatherKellyB]

There is no "one right way" or we'd all be doing it. Well, except for that one guy, because there's always that one guy....

There are thousands of wrong ways.

But mostly, its risk managment and finding ways that work for you. I'd place your practice into the same box as my not feeding my birds the way I usually recommend others do theirs. Its not optimum, we know it, we've considered the downsides, and decided it works well under the totality of our individual circumstances, at a cost we are willing to pay. Can't ask for more than that.

Perfectly worded! Thank you so much for your time. That's true. I really have to keep an eye out for any clues of rodents, especially now during our coldest months. I've had mice before and those little boogers will try and try to find a way in and sometimes do some damage in the process. I also have to think about frostbite with the increased moisture. I've been thinking that it'd probably be a much better idea to sneak in some mash before I leave to take my daughter, while it's still dark. That will remove the majority of risks, but adds to my workload at an already busy and sometimes hectic time. I guess it's a matter of what your reply addresses. Thankfully it's not like this year round

 

[My Very First 6 Chickens]

I don't think I did a good enough job of explaining my situation. I want to grow fodder as a treat and to give my chickens some fresh food because it is winter. I'm not planning to use it as a substitute for their pellet fee

Hey there! I am located in CT and have 6 pullets that I too would like to grow fodder for during the winter. The goal is to have something green for them, something different as a bordem buster, and maybe some minerals and vitamins that they usually get from the grass. What I have learned, is that its not the easiest project to maintain but with plenty of preplanning, getting all the right tools, it should be easy enough to do for a small backyard flock. I am in NO way experienced, but after about 3-4 hours of research, I will do the following:
1. Find a Barley & field pea mix, or rye, or just barley (no pesticides, and does not have to be for human consumption) i am going to check the store Lock stock and Barrel.
2. you'll want to soak those seeds for 12-24 hours in water. I'm not sure the measurements I'll do yet, but i think about 1 cup should work as I only am doing it for entertainment and I dont want to waste or become overwhelmed. I will add a teeny tiny amount of bleach to kill any molds (i have watched many videos and larger fodder operators all use a little bleach) i was uncertain, but have watched enough videos to lead me to believe its ok.
3. drain and rinse the seeds really well and spread them into a tray about 1/2inch thick and again, i will shower them and pat them down.
4. Find a place for the trays to sit where you can water them really well 2-3 times a day! They have to drain really well, so i will prop them up at a slight angle to encourage the drainage.
5. After about 6 days, you should see some grass.
** an important tidbit I learned is that you do need to be careful how much you are giving them. Lots of info on youtube can explain further, but I know, I will only give them a very small amount. Whats a small amount? You'll have to do your own research on that, but if I do a 12x4 inch tray, I will only give them about 1/5 of that. if that makes any sense.
Oddly enough i came on here to ask the same questions you are! youtube has helped a ton. Some people have some pretty serious setups that water themselves and reuse the water. Its a process and I hope to have it down pat. Next year I will be more prepared. Lets try something new!

 

[My Very First 6 Chickens]

They lied.

No, really, THEY LIED.

Not only is fodder imbalanced - you can no more nutritiously feed your birds mass quantities of corn than you can wheetgrass/catgrass, actual cereal wheat, oats, barley, sorghum, etc than you can bags of scratch, boss, etc, - that's why a carefully selected mix of ingredients fill the commercial feed. And you can't begin to make it economical unless you have lots of land, the equipment to till it, and buy your seedstock in bulk. Even then, do you honestly think you can compete at the scale of the commercial farms supplying the commercial mills providing the commercial feeds?

Sprouting trays, etc are great for enrichment (activities), and when carefully sellected, minor dietary adjustments (I like growing fenugreek, for instance, because of its relatively high methionine percentages for a green growing thing), but at the volume of feed a moderate flock of birds eats daily, its likely beyond the available space and time commitments of the typical backyard grower.

Best to treat it as treats, not more than 10% of the daily diet, by weight.

Even then, the math doesn't work. I can make a 20% protein feed for my birds (by mixing commercial bags) for around $0.28/lb right now. If I want to save labor, I can buy 18% protein at about $0.276/lb right now. With, lets pretend, 60 birds (my flock is in the sig, below), feeding 15# per day on average, to replace 3 months of feed at 10% substitution would be 1.5# per day times 92+/- days. About 150# of feed. Or $45.

Once you've bought the trays, built the frames, obtained your seed (economically, Amazon Prime, 50# bags), obtained soil, done the labor, raised the greens (and keep in mind, they are full of water, not near so nutrient dense as a commercial feed AND prone to freeze damage), are you really under $45 invested?

I feed, actually, between between 10# and 13# per day to my flock, seasonally dependent. How??? I've invested a few $Hundred$ into building a biodiverse polyculture of plants coming into season at differeng times of year which are a mix of forbs, legumes, herbs, grasses, grains, and even fruits. "My Acres of Weeds". and I happen to be in one of the most forgiving growing zones in the US. What works for me likely won't work well for you.

/edit and, fwiw, I'm likely throwing another $100 or so worth of seed into the pasture this spring, in hopes of adding still more diversity. How I'm going to keep my birds from eating it before it sprouts is a complete mystery to me. Likely trying "Cereal" Rye (not rye grass, seasonal or perennial), Buckwheat, and Sorghum (I have a small amount of native sorghum already growing, but its being edged out by other plants). If it saves me 6% on my feed costs over the course of the year, I break even. If the birds eat all the seeds, or we have another weird rainfall month, and nothing sprouts, then it cost me the equivalnt of almost 300# of feed, essentially a months worth.

i actually came here today and was looking for your options specifically Stormcrow. I didnt have to dig deep! awesome. Thank you for your expertise.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

i actually came here today and was looking for your options specifically Stormcrow. I didnt have to dig deep! awesome. Thank you for your expertise.

hehe. You give me too much credit. As entertainment, growing your own fodder has value (mostly to you, as a chicken owner, rather than to your bird's diet). The pure economics of it, as compared to an inexpensive commercially complete feed, is where it all falls apart. I'll concede it may have value as a boredom buster for chickens kept in tightly confined places for protracted periods - I don't have experience with that - I don't maintain my chickens that way.

But as a significant (20% of diet plus+), nutritious, replacement for a commercially complete feed (which is what I mistakenly beleived the Original Poster was seeking), the math is most unforgiving.

 

[My Very First 6 Chickens]

hehe. You give me too much credit. As entertainment, growing your own fodder has value (mostly to you, as a chicken owner, rather than to your bird's diet). The pure economics of it, as compared to an inexpensive commercially complete feed, is where it all falls apart. I'll concede it may have value as a boredom buster for chickens kept in tightly confined places for protracted periods - I don't have experience with that - I don't maintain my chickens that way.

But as a significant (20% of diet plus+), nutritious, replacement for a commercially complete feed (which is what I mistakenly beleived the Original Poster was seeking), the math is most unforgiving.

My 6 hens do a lot of free ranging in the woods, but with CT winters keeping them cooped up, I can see changes in their behavior and am always thinking of bordem busters to keep the peace in the flock. My fodder will be a means of entertainment, as well as some morsels of some nutrition I suppose. Stormcrow, would you be willing to simply tell me what your routine chicken feed practices are? i know there are variables that would not make it the way I or others would practice, but, I am very curious. I remember your talks about Lysine and was very intrigued. Thank you again for your time and expertise. I appreciate you. BYC is lucky to have you pokin' around helping us noobs

 

[U_Stormcrow]

My 6 hens do a lot of free ranging in the woods, but with CT winters keeping them cooped up, I can see changes in their behavior and am always thinking of bordem busters to keep the peace in the flock. My fodder will be a means of entertainment, as well as some morsels of some nutrition I suppose. Stormcrow, would you be willing to simply tell me what your routine chicken feed practices are? i know there are variables that would not make it the way I or others would practice, but, I am very curious. I remember your talks about Lysine and was very intrigued. Thank you again for your time and expertise. I appreciate you. BYC is lucky to have you pokin' around helping us noobs

I'm in zone 8a - one of the most forgiving climates in this nation. My birds (chickens and ducks) free range approx 5 acres, protected by electric fencing (plus another acre, till I set a fresh gate post - they are currently going under the gate. Of the 5 acres, roughly 3 are a hardwood hammock here in FL, virgin wood, mostly oaks, hickory, some pine youpon holly, others with native grapes and not much else. The other two are a cleared pasture, "my acres of weeds" (incomplete) which I've deliberately seeded with a mix of forbs, grains, legumes, grasses (work in progress) to provide a variety of choices from which they can graze. The passiflora (passion fruit vine) and blackberries are natives.

More often than not, I don't close the run at night, so they can sleep wherever, and begin ranging whenever. I feed a commercially complete feed once daily, in the evening, to encourage them to come back to the run (head count, observe behaviors for signs of injury, gauge feed consumption, etc). Amount fed varies by season, adjusted based on apparent need. (If they eat for 10 minutes, then walk away, leaving feed behind, I cut another pound away the next day - if they eat for 5 minutes, clean it all up, then mob me for more, I add feed - plus observations from culling). Generally, I do this as a wet mash (I buy crumble) to reduce waste and provide some support during the hottest months of the year. The pasture saves me about 15% to 35% against expected feed needs, seasonally variable.

Roughly weekly, I cull a couple for table, so i can get hands up inside them, judge organ condition, fat levels and locations, etc). This is balanced by Incubations - I have a "culling project" going on to try to produce a flock of birds well suited to free ranging on my properties that I can incubate myself, provide reasonable meat for table, and a reasonable number of eggs (tall order, I know. "Reasonable" is key here).

Because of the various priorities, I feed 24% protein to about 8 weeks - that helps early growth and weight gain on my males, most of whom are due for "quick"-ish culling. After that, they are moved from the brooder pen (inside the barn plus an attached fenced run) into the main flock where, for reasons of cost, I mix a bag of 24% with a bag of 16% layer. End result is a 20% protein, good amino acid profile feed which is about 2.3-2.8% calcium - potential risk to my males, but since most males will only be on it about three months, have completed their most critical growth stage, and none are expected to make it more than a year before being rotated out for fresh breeders, I judge the risks of calcium toxicity to be quite low. One I'm willing to take.

The hens are expected to get a year of production (first adult molt) with some getting a second year due to expressed genetics (color, size, pattern). They have free choice grit and oyster shell.

The property also has a handful of goats - who sometimes try to eat the chicken feed, and the chickens in turn, sometimes try to eat the goat feed. Another reason both are fed once daily, in differing locations, with no feed left out for later. We are adding meat rabbits in the coming weeks, I hope to keep them separated. Time will tell, but their feed should not be an issue. Water is collected rainfall, numerous locations.

That is what works for me - my unique circumstances make it unlikely to work for others - which is why I don't recommend others do as I do.

(and that was the short form - thanks for asking!)