Winter Feed Cost and Growing Fodder

[TOPChickens14]

It is winter here in New York. My flock has been cooped (pun intended) up inside for the past month and a half. They are going through food like crazy and not laying eggs. I need a solution to this and I found two options, fermenting feed and growing fodder. I already have the fermenting process working but one issue that has arisen is because of the cold temperatures, the feed freezes if the chickens don't eat it fast enough. Any suggestions on this would be helpful!
Growing them fodder is my next excursion in chicken keeping. I have read around the web looking for inspo and articles on how to do it. I found a few that use aluminum pans, I got those today. I understand the process of growing the fodder but finding the grain is where I'm having issues. The articles that I have read on fodder don't say where they get the said grain. Most of them say that they get their grain from their feed store but TSC neither Runnings sells grain like that. The few articles that do state where they get the grain online, it is usually very expensive. I found that the articles say that growing fodder is economical. From what I am seeing, it isn't. Where are you all getting your grain? I would prefer to grow wheatgrass/ wheat berries but I am having no luck finding them. I have also seen people suggest using BOSS in YT videos and in articles. Would BOSS work well? I could easily find this inexpensively as a worst-case scenario. Thanks for all the help

 

[U_Stormcrow]

I found that the articles say that growing fodder is economical.

They lied.

No, really, THEY LIED.

Not only is fodder imbalanced - you can no more nutritiously feed your birds mass quantities of corn than you can wheetgrass/catgrass, actual cereal wheat, oats, barley, sorghum, etc than you can bags of scratch, boss, etc, - that's why a carefully selected mix of ingredients fill the commercial feed. And you can't begin to make it economical unless you have lots of land, the equipment to till it, and buy your seedstock in bulk. Even then, do you honestly think you can compete at the scale of the commercial farms supplying the commercial mills providing the commercial feeds?

Sprouting trays, etc are great for enrichment (activities), and when carefully sellected, minor dietary adjustments (I like growing fenugreek, for instance, because of its relatively high methionine percentages for a green growing thing), but at the volume of feed a moderate flock of birds eats daily, its likely beyond the available space and time commitments of the typical backyard grower.

Best to treat it as treats, not more than 10% of the daily diet, by weight.

Even then, the math doesn't work. I can make a 20% protein feed for my birds (by mixing commercial bags) for around $0.28/lb right now. If I want to save labor, I can buy 18% protein at about $0.276/lb right now. With, lets pretend, 60 birds (my flock is in the sig, below), feeding 15# per day on average, to replace 3 months of feed at 10% substitution would be 1.5# per day times 92+/- days. About 150# of feed. Or $45.

Once you've bought the trays, built the frames, obtained your seed (economically, Amazon Prime, 50# bags), obtained soil, done the labor, raised the greens (and keep in mind, they are full of water, not near so nutrient dense as a commercial feed AND prone to freeze damage), are you really under $45 invested?

I feed, actually, between between 10# and 13# per day to my flock, seasonally dependent. How??? I've invested a few $Hundred$ into building a biodiverse polyculture of plants coming into season at differeng times of year which are a mix of forbs, legumes, herbs, grasses, grains, and even fruits. "My Acres of Weeds". and I happen to be in one of the most forgiving growing zones in the US. What works for me likely won't work well for you.

/edit and, fwiw, I'm likely throwing another $100 or so worth of seed into the pasture this spring, in hopes of adding still more diversity. How I'm going to keep my birds from eating it before it sprouts is a complete mystery to me. Likely trying "Cereal" Rye (not rye grass, seasonal or perennial), Buckwheat, and Sorghum (I have a small amount of native sorghum already growing, but its being edged out by other plants). If it saves me 6% on my feed costs over the course of the year, I break even. If the birds eat all the seeds, or we have another weird rainfall month, and nothing sprouts, then it cost me the equivalnt of almost 300# of feed, essentially a months worth.

 

[curlyq76]

Fodder System Success!! Greens in the winter, lots of snow and -20 Celsius

 

[Sally PB]

I like growing fenugreek, for instance, because of its relatively high methionine percentages for a green growing thing

Thank you for reminding me about the fenugreek seeds I bought last summer! I'm going to start a fodder tray of them this weekend.

For me, growing fodder for my chickens is 90% a boredom buster/enrichment/treat thing. They get greens (scarce this time of year), and they get to "play with their food," by tearing it apart, and then running around like they have the ball and are taking it to the house.

I get to have something green growing inside, and then get to watch their hilarity.

 

[TOPChickens14]

They lied.

No, really, THEY LIED.

Not only is fodder imbalanced - you can no more nutritiously feed your birds mass quantities of corn than you can wheetgrass/catgrass, actual cereal wheat, oats, barley, sorghum, etc than you can bags of scratch, boss, etc, - that's why a carefully selected mix of ingredients fill the commercial feed. And you can't begin to make it economical unless you have lots of land, the equipment to till it, and buy your seedstock in bulk. Even then, do you honestly think you can compete at the scale of the commercial farms supplying the commercial mills providing the commercial feeds?

Sprouting trays, etc are great for enrichment (activities), and when carefully sellected, minor dietary adjustments (I like growing fenugreek, for instance, because of its relatively high methionine percentages for a green growing thing), but at the volume of feed a moderate flock of birds eats daily, its likely beyond the available space and time commitments of the typical backyard grower.

Best to treat it as treats, not more than 10% of the daily diet, by weight.

Even then, the math doesn't work. I can make a 20% protein feed for my birds (by mixing commercial bags) for around $0.28/lb right now. If I want to save labor, I can buy 18% protein at about $0.276/lb right now. With, lets pretend, 60 birds (my flock is in the sig, below), feeding 15# per day on average, to replace 3 months of feed at 10% substitution would be 1.5# per day times 92+/- days. About 150# of feed. Or $45.

Once you've bought the trays, built the frames, obtained your seed (economically, Amazon Prime, 50# bags), obtained soil, done the labor, raised the greens (and keep in mind, they are full of water, not near so nutrient dense as a commercial feed AND prone to freeze damage), are you really under $45 invested?

I feed, actually, between between 10# and 13# per day to my flock, seasonally dependent. How??? I've invested a few $Hundred$ into building a biodiverse polyculture of plants coming into season at differeng times of year which are a mix of forbs, legumes, herbs, grasses, grains, and even fruits. "My Acres of Weeds". and I happen to be in one of the most forgiving growing zones in the US. What works for me likely won't work well for you.

/edit and, fwiw, I'm likely throwing another $100 or so worth of seed into the pasture this spring, in hopes of adding still more diversity. How I'm going to keep my birds from eating it before it sprouts is a complete mystery to me. Likely trying "Cereal" Rye (not rye grass, seasonal or perennial), Buckwheat, and Sorghum (I have a small amount of native sorghum already growing, but its being edged out by other plants). If it saves me 6% on my feed costs over the course of the year, I break even. If the birds eat all the seeds, or we have another weird rainfall month, and nothing sprouts, then it cost me the equivalnt of almost 300# of feed, essentially a months worth.

I don't think I did a good enough job of explaining my situation. I want to grow fodder as a treat and to give my chickens some fresh food because it is winter. I'm not planning to use it as a substitute for their pellet feed.

 

[Smileybans]

I use this fodder tower https://www.backyardchickens.com/ar...odder-tower-with-dollar-tree-dish-bins.75190/

and buy my fodder here https://www.azurestandard.com/

I do notice when I feed the fodder, since I don’t feed it every day, that my chickens go crazy over that instead of their feed. I free feed but my chickens love to have their grass every week. At the rate I grow it with the tower I’m able to feed them fodder three times a week. I did not make my tower as large as the one in the link but if I had I probably would be able to feed them more.

 

[NatJ]

They are going through food like crazy

Have you checked whether they are throwing feed into the bedding and wasting it?
Have you checked whether mice or rats are eating some of it?

Of course you want to feed the chickens enough food, but there's no reason to feed the floor, or the rodents!

A common estimate is 1/4 pound per adult laying hen per day. So if you are buying more than double that much, it is almost certainly getting spilled, wasted, or eaten by something else.

If they are using a reasonable amount of food, the change might be because they are eating only the food you provide (while they are cooped up), as compared with finding some food elsewhere (at other times of the year.)

They do eat a bit more food in cold weather because they need more energy to keep warm, so that could also be part of the reason they seem to need so much now.

and not laying eggs.

The lack of eggs is probably caused by molting or lack of daylight or both.
Waiting for a few months will usually fix either issue (the chickens finish growing their new feathers and start laying again, or the days get longer and they start laying again.)

As others have said, adding more light will help if lack of daylight is the issue, although you typically won't see eggs until several weeks after you start adding light. The hens' bodies need that long to get everything ready, and then they can lay an egg every day or two for quite a while.

because of the cold temperatures, the feed freezes if the chickens don't eat it fast enough. Any suggestions on this would be helpful!

Suggestions about fermented feed that freezes:

--Put out small amounts several times each day, so the chickens eat up each portion before it freezes. If you leave dry feed available too, you don't have to be too fussy about getting the "right" amount of fermented feed, because they can eat the dry food if they're still hungry.

--Have two dishes of fermented feed, one being eaten/frozen in the chicken pen and the other thawing in the house. Switch dishes as needed.

--Put the fermented feed in a heated dish. If you also have a heated water source, this could save a lot of trips out to replace feed & water.

--It usually works best to let chickens nibble feed all day long. But it is possible for them to eat enough in two big meals per day (morning and evening) when the food is served wet or fermented. This is not ideal, but in bad weather it's helpful to know. For this to work, you would need to serve enough each time for them to all eat until they are completely full (and then the leftovers would freeze, and you'd have to thaw them out to use again later.)

 

[TOPChickens14]

I have noticed that my chickens don't like the powdery bits of feed that fall to the bottom of the bowl. I save those in a separate bin and use it to make their main snack, which is just their usual feed wetted into a mash. I give them that mid-late afternoon when I go in to clean the coop. Very little of their purchased food is wasted.

They love their mash, and there's usually little to none left in the pie plates I serve it on.

Thank you. You just gave me a great idea. I have been dumping the "dust" that collects in the bottom of my feeders because it clogs them up. I guess I can use that dust in my fermented feed.

 

[PioneerChicks]

Remember guys, there are a lot of different chicken keeping opinions. We can still get along though!


I ferment feed. In the winter I keep it inside the garage or house. I feed it to them once or twice a day (depending on the weather) and they eat most of it at mealtimes, before it freezes. Then they snack on what's left before the next meal time.

I grow fodder for them, just a container every week or so. I green it in the sun (in a window in winter, not a lot ton of sun but it's something) to so that it has extra vitamins. Fresh greens in winter are really good for them!

I've started growing mealworms. They are easy and take almost no space. But it takes a while to build a sizable colony up.

I have a bag of Wild Garden Seed's "chicken lettuce/critter mix" that I plan to try soon. Basically, it's a lettuce seed mix that you can grow in a small space for animals. Haven't tested it yet but I have high hopes!

But the number #1 thing that cuts down on feed costs for me is SCRAPS! Kitchens scraps. Old leftovers and stuff. (Garden scraps in summer) You'd be amazed how well this works! Just make sure to check what foods to avoid in the Chicken Treats Chart article on BYC. I can't pull up the exact link right now, but it's called something like that.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

Thank you. You just gave me a great idea. I have been dumping the "dust" that collects in the bottom of my feeders because it clogs them up. I guess I can use that dust in my fermented feed.

In some feeds - particularly the whole grain feeds, the "dust" is the most important, nutritious, part - generally a multivitamin, enzyme, amino acid booster like one of the Fertrell's products. Wet mash, as a management method, helps fix a lot of different issues, with a lot of different feeds - from picky birds with whole grain feeds to waste crumble and bottom of bag powder. But nothing's perfect - it ain't so great below freezing (rather time-limited) or in most feeder designs.

Finding a method that works for you, your birds, your situation is part of the process. There is no "one, right, way" - though there seem to be tens of thousands of wrong ways.