Winter Humidity, Ventilation, Frostbite & Purple Spots Questions

[OG Anomaly]

Hi ,
I live near Buffalo, NY and we're experiencing some pretty frigid weather (as is most of the Eastern part of the country & Canada, apparently) and it's due to get worse for the next three days. It's already been down to -3F and we are supposed to get windchills between -25F & -30F for the next three days as well.

I have 8, less than 1 yr old, white Leghorns and they're getting partially frostbitten tips and wattles, and purple spots on their combs. This is my first year w chickens.
I understand that a process called 'winterdubbing' is to be expected, or at least considered normal, but if I can, I would like to keep this at a minimum.
I've been reading about ventilation & humidity since Oct and thought I was all good on this front. We have no drafts and the ventilation has been & should be fine. We covered the run in plastic to stop drafts there and they are allowed out in a small (8'x8'-ish run) all day. I was letting them continue to free range, until one left the path & got stuck in the deep snow for several hours.

We bought a Hygrometer (sp?) today & it's reading high humidity at 80%. However...that is exactly what the natural occurring humidity is in the outside air. We often have high humidity, even in the winter, and my first question is:
If the air is already at high humidity, how can I lower it in the coop?

We use a deep litter system and we've replaced about half of it already because ventilation was letting so much snow inside and the couple times it'd warmed up, it'd melted and gotten too damp.
Should I add more wood chips to try & soak up some of the water? Won't it just build back up again, from the humid air? Should I just plan on adding/changing more chips once a week to combat the humidity? If we cut more ventilation holes into the coop, what's to stop the ambient air from humidifying it even more quickly now that there's more getting in?

There is no water in the coop itself. We also have a very small 8W red colored (not brooder) light bulb inside, that we originally started using to stop aggressive behavior when they were much younger. It gives off extremely minimal amounts of heat and I find it hard to believe this could be the culprit...but, I've been wrong before.

I read on another thread, that the purple spots could mean there's respiratory issues, but we only have one girl that's sneezing and her breathing isn't ragged at all.
I did notice another one that was sitting by herself, tucking her head partially under her wing, and almost imperceptibly shivering. She stayed like for about 25 mins, while I was waiting to read the hygrometer, then got up and acted & sounded fine.

I tried to get pics of the purple spots, but they came out blurry & practically useless. I can try again tomorrow & will post then. For now tho, I'd like to deal with the humidity problem. If I have one...? Is this just the way it is & we just have to deal with it? I have coated their combs w Bag Balm several times, and am also wondering if I should use both Bag Balm & Vaseline/petroleum jelly, or just vaseline, or...?

Thanks so much for any input and I hope everyone can stay warm & safe during this year's polar storm!

 

[oldhenlikesdogs]

Sometimes putting plastic around a run can cause moisture issues. You can't lower coop humidity any lower than the external temperatures. Sometimes too much ventilation will cause frostbite too.

I don't bother coating combs. As you have seen it does no good. They will get some frostbite, they will lose some tissue and there will be less next year. You can't really prevent it at temperatures lower than -10. Freezing sub zero temperatures are normal here in winter. I have seen a lot of frostbite. The only thing you can do is keep chickens with smaller combs, but even than they still can get it.

 

[Alaskan]

If your coop is the same humidity as the outside... then good. You have been successful.

To keep snow out of the coop, do you have grow cloth lying about? You could staple that up over the vents that are causing trouble. That way you will still get some air exchange, but hopefully no snow.

Another option is a baffle. So get a plywood sheet the same size as the vent. Instead of screwing the plywood right onto the vent (and that would of course close it), put a couple of space blocks so that the plywood is maybe 2 inches away from the wire. Air will have to come up the gaps between the wall and the plywood, and then into the coop.

Just trying to block that snow, but not the air.

Anyway... I also live in a pretty high humidity area. I don't bother moisturizing combs.

One very cold year, when I still had a few single comb leghorns... I noticed that some of the spots that I was really worried about, especially on the comb fold... healed up perfectly.

Do make sure that:
1. they have WIDE perches..feet need to be flat
2. They always have feed
3. They have liquid water at least 2 hours morning and 2 hours evening..but more is better
4. they need at least 8 hours of eating time a day, 10 is better, especially when it is bitter cold. You might need a light on a timer.
5. Higher protein and higher fat feed helps too. I feed 20% protein when it is bitter cold, and they get all of my fat scraps, bacon grease, etc. Bacon grease can be mixed in with their pellets or crumbles, and then fed in a pan.

Good luck! My production white single comb Leghorns did fine in several weeks of -20F.

 

[OG Anomaly]

Sometimes putting plastic around a run can cause moisture issues. You can't lower coop humidity any lower than the external temperatures. Sometimes too much ventilation will cause frostbite too.

I don't bother coating combs. As you have seen it does no good. They will get some frostbite, they will lose some tissue and there will be less next year. You can't really prevent it at temperatures lower than -10. Freezing sub zero temperatures are normal here in winter. I have seen a lot of frostbite. The only thing you can do is keep chickens with smaller combs, but even than they still can get it.

Thank you, I'll quit worrying so much! It does look painful though.
Have you ever had problems w infection from frostbite?

 

[oldhenlikesdogs]

Thank you, I'll quit worrying so much! It does look painful though.
Have you ever had problems w infection from frostbite?

Never have I seen infection nor any of the really big swelling. I see slight swelling, funky head shaking, and some "I'm so miserable" looking.

The up side of the frostbite is it can slow them down so they aren't mating so much, which is a good break for the hens. Every single combed rooster here takes some damage, it just depends on how severe. All have healed up fine.

It can be hard to do nothing, but that's the best thing. Nature heals them up. I'm sure it's a bit painful, but even that has a purpose as it keeps them more quiet so they don't damage the tissue more running around like fools.

I have a few that lost toes too, and one year for some reason a rooster got his whole leg frostbitten. We culled him as soon as the whole leg turned black as he couldn't survive well with only one leg. I suspect he must have stepped in that water on a bitterly cold day.

 

[OG Anomaly]

If your coop is the same humidity as the outside... then good. You have been successful.

To keep snow out of the coop, do you have grow cloth lying about? You could staple that up over the vents that are causing trouble. That way you will still get some air exchange, but hopefully no snow.

Another option is a baffle. So get a plywood sheet the same size as the vent. Instead of screwing the plywood right onto the vent (and that would of course close it), put a couple of space blocks so that the plywood is maybe 2 inches away from the wire. Air will have to come up the gaps between the wall and the plywood, and then into the coop.

Just trying to block that snow, but not the air.

Anyway... I also live in a pretty high humidity area. I don't bother moisturizing combs.

One very cold year, when I still had a few single comb leghorns... I noticed that some of the spots that I was really worried about, especially on the comb fold... healed up perfectly.

Do make sure that:
1. they have WIDE perches..feet need to be flat
2. They always have feed
3. They have liquid water at least 2 hours morning and 2 hours evening..but more is better
4. they need at least 8 hours of eating time a day, 10 is better, especially when it is bitter cold. You might need a light on a timer.
5. Higher protein and higher fat feed helps too. I feed 20% protein when it is bitter cold, and they get all of my fat scraps, bacon grease, etc. Bacon grease can be mixed in with their pellets or crumbles, and then fed in a pan.

Good luck! My production white single comb Leghorns did fine in several weeks of -20F.

Thank you all the great ideas, I really like the baffle idea & would never have thought of that, but it will have to be a next year project. We put up some more plastic to stop the snow from getting in and have gotten 90% of it blocked.
The grow cloth tho...that should be do-able right now, and another great idea. Are you talking about the cloth you put down in flower beds and vegetable gardens, under the mulch, to help keep weeds down?

I have an electric heated waterer out there, that's available all day (even that has frozen so solid I've had to bring it inside to get the ice out) and they also have laying pellets available all day, as well as oyster shells. I've been giving them a bit of cracked corn, some basic bird seed w sunflower seeds, dried meal worms and an occasional suet block. I cut down a bit on the higher protein bcz we were having sa problem w soft shell eggs I took out a head of lettuce for them today & they loved it. They are used to free ranging in the warmer months and I'm sure they miss the green stuff. I've seen some recipes for 'flock blocks' on here & want to make some, I just haven't done so yet.
I do not have a wide perch. They have a large branch (approx 2-3" dia) for inside the coop at night and I made a roost for the run area using an old broom handle and a couple 2x4 saw horse legs...instead of the cross/connecting piece being another 2x4, I put the broom handle in it's place. The jaws didn't open wide enough for the 2x4 to sit flat, so broom stick it was! They love to roost in trees every chance they get, and I figured since those are round, it would be fine...? Why the flat?

 

[OG Anomaly]

Never have I seen infection nor any of the really big swelling. I see slight swelling, funky head shaking, and some "I'm so miserable" looking.

The up side of the frostbite is it can slow them down so they aren't mating so much, which is a good break for the hens. Every single combed rooster here takes some damage, it just depends on how severe. All have healed up fine.

It can be hard to do nothing, but that's the best thing. Nature heals them up. I'm sure it's a bit painful, but even that has a purpose as it keeps them more quiet so they don't damage the tissue more running around like fools.

I have a few that lost toes too, and one year for some reason a rooster got his whole leg frostbitten. We culled him as soon as the whole leg turned black as he couldn't survive well with only one leg. I suspect he must have stepped in that water on a bitterly cold day.

Not having problems w infection is Excellent!

We don't have any males right now, so no worries there.

I was expecting them to slow down their egg production, but so far, we've only lost one egg a day & I'm pretty sure it's the girl w 'female' problems who's prone to soft eggs).

Thank you for your time and sharing your experience and I'm sorry to hear about your poor roo.

 

[Alaskan]

I have found that flat feet = no frostbite on toes.

Soft eggs can be from chickens just starting to lay or just coming out of a molt, but usually is due to not enough calcium. I have never heard of soft shell eggs happening because of high protein.

By grow cloth I was thinking the white row cover people use over growing plants to keep cabbage moths from getting on the plants. The weed barrier you are talking about does let water and some air through, so better than plastic, but it won't let in as much air as the row cover. But using what you already have on hand is good.

I completely agree with @oldhenlikesdogs on the frostbite care. I have had frostbite on combs and wattles. .. before I changed my coop around and switched to wide perches I also had frostbite on toes and feet.

Since switching to wide perches, the only birds that ever get frostbite toes are some old hens with feathered feet. If I don't watch them closely the feathers pick up snow balls...and then yep...freeze the toes. One reason I will never again buy feather legged chickens.

However... NONE of the frostbite has ever gotten infected or needed treatment, even the cases of toe loss that I had before I switched perches.

I did cull the couple of birds that got frostbite deep into the foot (my first winter... what can I say...learning curve)

 

[oldhenlikesdogs]

I have found that flat feet = no frostbite on toes.

Soft eggs can be from chickens just starting to lay or just coming out of a molt, but usually is due to not enough calcium. I have never heard of soft shell eggs happening because of high protein.

By grow cloth I was thinking the white row cover people use over growing plants to keep cabbage moths from getting on the plants. The weed barrier you are talking about does let water and some air through, so better than plastic, but it won't let in as much air as the row cover. But using what you already have on hand is good.

I completely agree with @oldhenlikesdogs on the frostbite care. I have had frostbite on combs and wattles. .. before I changed my coop around and switched to wide perches I also had frostbite on toes and feet.

Since switching to wide perches, the only birds that ever get frostbite toes are some old hens with feathered feet. If I don't watch them closely the feathers pick up snow balls...and then yep...freeze the toes. One reason I will never again buy feather legged chickens.

However... NONE of the frostbite has ever gotten infected or needed treatment, even the cases of toe loss that I had before I switched perches.

I did cull the couple of birds that got frostbite deep into the foot (my first winter... what can I say...learning curve)

We have since switched some of our roosts to flat, but unfortunately my birds choose to roost on the fence boards dividing my shed up. My birds choose where to roost. Sometimes they choose poorly.

Interesting how you feather footed birds have problems and mine don't. I have learned a lot on BYC about how where you live can have a big affect on how you keep chickens.