Winter Water

[wyododge]

Most stock tank de-icers will not operate above 40 degrees and every fish tank heater I have found has a minimum setting of 60 degrees. A 60 to 90 degree temperature differential will cause significant evaporation. If that is something you are worried about, closed cell foam floating on top of the tank or bucket will stop it. Bird bath de-icers are no where near 750 watts but even if they were they are temperature controlled and will not heat above 40 degrees.

As far as sealing a hole made in a fount, I tried everything I could think of and could never get a seal that would hold. That's why I went to buckets with nipples. In addition to the fact that founts are just a royal pain in the rear. I cut mine up to use for flashing. For that, they work great.

 

[Quizcat]

Quote:
Well, coming from that kind of environment where you're experiencing temperatures plunging to -38F it's a pretty good testimonial that the nipples would would work well for me here, where the temps only plummet to around -10 to -15F at the absolute extreme.

Much more than that, and I'm moving South anyway!

Yeah, I think that a deicer rated for 250 watts would be sufficient for the extremes in my area. I'll try the closed cell foam idea on top of the water. The bucket deicer is rated at 250 Watts, so it should work good.

I know what you mean about sealing the hole for the cord. That is the biggest obstacle because you not only have to have a seal that is durable, it has to maintain a vacuum or the whole concept of the water not running out of the hole in the bucket, and overflowing the oil pan, breaks down. If I can't get the seal to work with the cord glan connector I mentioned, which is supposed to provide a water tight seal from -40F to 212F, then I'll definitely probably use the nipples instead.

It's reassuring that the nipples are working for you in your extreme temperature environment. They should work for me with no problem whatsoever. Do you use the type that are threaded, or the push-in type that have a gasket? I stocked up on both types, and have them stored in the barn in the color red, not that color particularly matters.

I did have a bucket style reservoir, PVC pipe fed system, with nipples, out there this summer, and it worked good for a long time. But, one of the girls pecked one of the nipples out of the PVC pipe, and I never got around to fixing it. Those nipples were the push-in style with the little black gasket. Now I also have the threaded version, which I suspect might be less susceptible to being pecked loose. I never could find that pecked out nipple either. I hope one of them didn't eat it!

Fact is, I was all out of nipples, and decided to try the bucket/oil pan idea. I do like that better because the chickens seemed to enjoy sticking their beaks deep into the water versus pecking at the nipples. But, in winter time, the nipples might turn out to be about the only really viable option when you factor in the weather issues.

Thanks so much for your comments, and for the advice!

 

[wyododge]

We used the threaded type, but honestly I didn't know about the others. I guess for once, ignorance worked out for me!!

And you are very welcome.

Fwiw we have a 130 gallon spray tank in a box that is insulated with 2" rigid foam panels. inside the tank is a heater (duhh) and a submersible pump. The hose from the pump. Runs up to the ceiling and down into the nipple bucket. We turn the pump on with a light switch. 100 gallons effective storage means we only have to drag hoses every 40 to 50 days. Works really well, and in the summer we add an extra hose and bucket for extra water. Works pretty well.

I have pics but can't upload them yet. Some day I will.

 

[Quizcat]

Quote:
Wow!!! That sounds like a really good system. Got a million questions...

How many chickens does that provide water for over 40-50 days?

I assume you have a bucket heater in the nipple bucket then right?

Any problems during the low temps with water trying to freeze in the pipes or tubing going from the big tank to the nipple bucket?

I read somewhere on the forum that the nipples will sometimes develop a real fine coating of ice over them in the coldest of temperatures, but that the chickens just peck at the nipples for water, that the ice that forms easily breaks, and the water flows with no problem.

Do you have ice forming on the nipples, or do the nipples stay totally free of ice from the bucket heater?

Dragging a hose every 40-50 days wouldn't be too much of an aggravation. How long does it take you to fill up the tank?

What kind of heater is inside the tank, Size, Type?

I assume you're using the submersible pump to keep the water circulating to further inhibit the water from freezing in the tank, and for pumping it out when need be?

Did it come standard with the heater and the submersible pump, or did you have to add them yourself?

I assume the spray tank you have is the same kind you can get from a place like Tractor Supply for insecticides, fertilizer, etc..., correct?

Yeah, upload the pics when you get a chance. Sounds like a really cool system!

 

[Kaitie09]

I have 20 chickens, and we just use a heated dog bowl. It works great and all we have to do is plug it in.

 

[wyododge]

Quote:
Wow!!! That sounds like a really good system. Got a million questions...

How many chickens does that provide water for over 40-50 days?

we have 26 large breed cold hardy, astrolorp, giants, wyandots, NH red

I assume you have a bucket heater in the nipple bucket then right? yes a bird bath de-icer

Any problems during the low temps with water trying to freeze in the pipes or tubing going from the big tank to the nipple bucket? the pump from the tank does not have a check valve so it drains. The hose is always running uphill, or down hill so the sytem drains when the pump turns off

I read somewhere on the forum that the nipples will sometimes develop a real fine coating of ice over them in the coldest of temperatures, but that the chickens just peck at the nipples for water, that the ice that forms easily breaks, and the water flows with no problem. yes they will, but they thaw when 'tickled'

Do you have ice forming on the nipples, or do the nipples stay totally free of ice from the bucket heater? no the nipples will have a little ball of ice at the end, when the chicken tickles it, it falls off

Dragging a hose every 40-50 days wouldn't be too much of an aggravation. How long does it take you to fill up the tank? our well runs at about 5 gal/min, so about 30 minutes

What kind of heater is inside the tank, Size, Type? 750 watt, H&K or K&H I believe, they are either submersible or floating, I chose to have it sink. The element is enclosed in a cage so it is safe for all types of tanks. It has a little floating ring that unscrews if you want it to be submersible.

I assume you're using the submersible pump to keep the water circulating to further inhibit the water from freezing in the tank, and for pumping it out when need be? we don't use it to circulate, that will cause heat loss, we just use the pump to pump water into the bucket. we turn it on/off with a standard light switch that powers a GFI outlet at the pump

Did it come standard with the heater and the submersible pump, or did you have to add them yourself? we had the tank. They are white and have bungholes pre-installed (which we dont use everything comes out of the top of the tank) and a large lid. The H&K heater was the only one that would fit through the lid at the top.

I assume the spray tank you have is the same kind you can get from a place like Tractor Supply for insecticides, fertilizer, etc..., correct? yes

Yeah, upload the pics when you get a chance. Sounds like a really cool system!

Here are some pics...

This is the tank inside the 'cooler' as we call it. The grocery bag has potatoes in it. The extra space doubles as cold storage.

This is the tank all buttoned up withe the fill hose in it and the pump hose going up to the ceiling. The foam boards are 2", we got them for $5 each at the lumber yard because they were 'damaged'.

This is the water bucket, at the time of this picture, we did not have the bird bath de-icer installed yet. The chord runs right next to the garden hose. the dunce cap (appropriately named by my wife for its creator) keeps the chickens off the bucket, sheds feathers dust and poop so it does not get in the water. I made a little hook at the top to hang the dunce cap from the hook in the ceiling when filling the bucket or removing it to clean so it does not fall all over. They are made with wire fabric and wrapped in cellophane and clear tape to keep the cellophane from coming unravelled. They are really hard to wrap. Worse than a football. But they work very well and were essentially free. The one over the feeder is two small and is slated for rebuild.

Hope this helps ya out!!!

I guess I should start a whole new thread instead of hijacking this one... (SORRY)

 

[Quizcat]

Quote:
Wow!!! That sounds like a really good system. Got a million questions...

How many chickens does that provide water for over 40-50 days?

we have 26 large breed cold hardy, astrolorp, giants, wyandots, NH red

I assume you have a bucket heater in the nipple bucket then right? yes a bird bath de-icer

Any problems during the low temps with water trying to freeze in the pipes or tubing going from the big tank to the nipple bucket? the pump from the tank does not have a check valve so it drains. The hose is always running uphill, or down hill so the sytem drains when the pump turns off

I read somewhere on the forum that the nipples will sometimes develop a real fine coating of ice over them in the coldest of temperatures, but that the chickens just peck at the nipples for water, that the ice that forms easily breaks, and the water flows with no problem. yes they will, but they thaw when 'tickled'

Do you have ice forming on the nipples, or do the nipples stay totally free of ice from the bucket heater? no the nipples will have a little ball of ice at the end, when the chicken tickles it, it falls off

Dragging a hose every 40-50 days wouldn't be too much of an aggravation. How long does it take you to fill up the tank? our well runs at about 5 gal/min, so about 30 minutes

What kind of heater is inside the tank, Size, Type? 750 watt, H&K or K&H I believe, they are either submersible or floating, I chose to have it sink. The element is enclosed in a cage so it is safe for all types of tanks. It has a little floating ring that unscrews if you want it to be submersible.

I assume you're using the submersible pump to keep the water circulating to further inhibit the water from freezing in the tank, and for pumping it out when need be? we don't use it to circulate, that will cause heat loss, we just use the pump to pump water into the bucket. we turn it on/off with a standard light switch that powers a GFI outlet at the pump

Did it come standard with the heater and the submersible pump, or did you have to add them yourself? we had the tank. They are white and have bungholes pre-installed (which we dont use everything comes out of the top of the tank) and a large lid. The H&K heater was the only one that would fit through the lid at the top.

I assume the spray tank you have is the same kind you can get from a place like Tractor Supply for insecticides, fertilizer, etc..., correct? yes

Yeah, upload the pics when you get a chance. Sounds like a really cool system!

Here are some pics...

This is the tank inside the 'cooler' as we call it. The grocery bag has potatoes in it. The extra space doubles as cold storage.

https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/uploads/108101_img_0009.jpg

This is the tank all buttoned up withe the fill hose in it and the pump hose going up to the ceiling. The foam boards are 2", we got them for $5 each at the lumber yard because they were 'damaged'.

https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/uploads/108101_img_0008.jpg

This is the water bucket, at the time of this picture, we did not have the bird bath de-icer installed yet. The chord runs right next to the garden hose. the dunce cap (appropriately named by my wife for its creator) keeps the chickens off the bucket, sheds feathers dust and poop so it does not get in the water. I made a little hook at the top to hang the dunce cap from the hook in the ceiling when filling the bucket or removing it to clean so it does not fall all over. They are made with wire fabric and wrapped in cellophane and clear tape to keep the cellophane from coming unravelled. They are really hard to wrap. Worse than a football. But they work very well and were essentially free. The one over the feeder is two small and is slated for rebuild.

https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/uploads/108101_85.jpg

Hope this helps ya out!!!

I guess I should start a whole new thread instead of hijacking this one... (SORRY)

Thanks so much for posting the photos, and for answering my long list of questions! Your system seems to be working really well in a very tough environment...

With regard to the dunce cap you said you need to replace, I saw where a guy on You Tube used automotive funnels as a plastic dunce cap on his waterers, and he raved how successful that idea had been for him. He was able to suspend the waterer from a hook in the ceiling. The chain was threaded through the nozzle of the funnel before he hung it from the ceiling. Gravity would hold the funnel in place on top of the waterer, discouraging the chickens from sitting on top of the waterers. He could just move the funnel up out of the way along the axis of the chain when he needed access to the waterer, and lock it up out of his way in place with a small dowel rod through one of the chain links further up the chain, one that fit through one of the chain links that was longer than the mouth of the funnel. You mentioned that you need to replace one of your dunce caps, so maybe a standard large funnel would work for you too. But, of course, it would not be free.

As far as hijacking a thread, I'm afraid I'm guilty of instigating that from the beginning...I also apologize to the original poster. But, this issue of freezing water supplies was what prompted his original post. Unfortunately, I could not offer him any experience to confirm his own theories.

Trying to find ways of supplying water without having to hassle with things on a daily basis in the painfully cold weather, and still providing acceptably clean, deiced water in the process, can be a challenge when temps drop down so low. Surely, any suggestions to fully automate this process so you don't have to hassle with it on a daily basis are relevant to the original poster's intent. Thanks again for sharing your experience!

 

[curranchickens]

I have had my eye on this bucket heater for a while. I think I am going to get it when the weather gets alittle colder...

http://www.amazon.com/Farm-Innovato...03E8/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1317658671&sr=8-6

 

[Quizcat]

Quote:
Yep, that's the exact one I have. Ordered it through Amazon.com too. It's got some pretty good reviews on-line. I'm waiting for an answer from the Cable Glan manufacturer to know what size cable glan to buy so I can bring the heater cable through the side wall up high inside the bucket, or through the lid of the bucket, and out. I need to still maintain the vacuum inside the bucket, and I think this cable glan idea will work because it's supposed to form a liquid and air tight seal. I'll probably clear caulk it too just to be safe.

If it works, then the problem of routing the cable out, while maintaining the vacuum inside the bucket, will be solved so that the bucket meters water perfectly into the pan. I'll post when I get an answer form the cable glan manufacturer.