WK #3

[Mixed flock enthusiast]

Blu definitely. The others just got a cleaning, but I'd noticed Blu's scales peeling, that's what made me look into it. Epsom soaks, Hibicleanse wash, betadine and vasoline to smother them is the common recommended treatment.

I'm sticking w/the Mercy wash since I've already seen how well it works, & Hibicleanse has it's warnings for excessive use in humans. I am doing the Epsom soaks, bypassing betadine bc w/the Mercy, it's overkill and -why stain the bird's legs red? -and using the vasoline.

I'm starting to wonder abt Blu. The initial area on that toe has closed up,but I found new,small one on a different toe tonight. Kind of wondering if he has gout. Everything I've read indicates bumblefoot wouldn't heal that quickly (granted, Mercy is awesome) - and there wasn't a core, unless it disintegrated during the washes-there was a lot of floaties in the water.

Both areas are just below the knuckle on top of toe. He's the only one w/the enlarged cracked scales. I just dropped their protein level this week, so if it is gout, that should help. He still travels along and keeps up w/the others, though.

I’m just wondering - could Blu’s leg scales look odd because she’s been regularly soaked in Epsom salts etc, rather than having leg mites? Can you post pics of her toe problems?

 

[Sydney65]

Thanks! They won't eat dried meal worms (25-56% CP), shrimp, veggies, fruit, anything, basically that ppl say they eat, so the only treat they get is millet (avg 10-12% CP), but they aren't getting that often or even daily since I don't have to bribe them to the coop anymore.
Until last week I was still feeding Manna Pro 24%, but this last batch was a lot of dust,so I went on the search again. I ordered Flight Conditioner 19%, but the holidays slowed deliveries to the point I ran out of feed. I found an all flock w/no meds locally @ 20%, so that's where they are now.
However, with the weather being uncharacteristically warm, they've been eating less of what I give them and spend all day foraging. Not sure what they're finding, but I see them digging and munching on something.
Thank you for the advice. As always, the more I read,the more questions I have. In humans, the diet AND a physiological
predisposition=disease (ie 2 ppl eat a high fat diet, one has a coronary in his 50s and the other lives into his 90s). But w/the birds, it seems directly diet related, so wouldn't more than one be affected if it is gout?
What I haven't found is specific info on mite damage. His isn't as dreadful as some pics I've seen, but enlarged, some peeled back leaving cracks, one I noted with a line w/I crack that was red/raw. Which made me wonder if progressed far enough, they could cause the tissue to dehisce?

 

[Sydney65]

Apologies ahead of time, one for the bluekote and 2 for the shakey hand. I'll try again later-after the photo session they all flew the coop. On the left foot, 3rd toe top -that's what's left of gaping hole. You can see where a new area is starting on 1st toe, just a dark crusty dent. Middle toe where it's shiny red, that's the crack between scales, and there's one like that on other foot at ankle joint, but I didn't manage to get that. I'll try to get better pics when I bring him in. The right foot has a dark bluekote spot but it's not a wound.

 

[R2elk]

Thanks! They won't eat dried meal worms (25-56% CP), shrimp, veggies, fruit, anything, basically that ppl say they eat, so the only treat they get is millet (avg 10-12% CP), but they aren't getting that often or even daily since I don't have to bribe them to the coop anymore.
Until last week I was still feeding Manna Pro 24%, but this last batch was a lot of dust,so I went on the search again. I ordered Flight Conditioner 19%, but the holidays slowed deliveries to the point I ran out of feed. I found an all flock w/no meds locally @ 20%, so that's where they are now.
However, with the weather being uncharacteristically warm, they've been eating less of what I give them and spend all day foraging. Not sure what they're finding, but I see them digging and munching on something.
Thank you for the advice. As always, the more I read,the more questions I have. In humans, the diet AND a physiological
predisposition=disease (ie 2 ppl eat a high fat diet, one has a coronary in his 50s and the other lives into his 90s). But w/the birds, it seems directly diet related, so wouldn't more than one be affected if it is gout?
What I haven't found is specific info on mite damage. His isn't as dreadful as some pics I've seen, but enlarged, some peeled back leaving cracks, one I noted with a line w/I crack that was red/raw. Which made me wonder if progressed far enough, they could cause the tissue to dehisce?

When I referred to gout I was just pointing out the possible cause and to point out that it can be an indication of kidney disease. Kidney disease can also be caused by excessive calcium in the diet for young and/or male poultry. If you live in a high limestone area, excess calcium in the diet can be due to natural causes.

Birds like people can have different individual responses to different conditions. The reason that in most cases many are affected by specific diets is that birds unlike people often do not have any choice in their diets.

My adult guineas are on a 20% protein all flock pellets without any visible health issues.

I did briefly appear to have a scaly leg mite issue with some of my turkeys. In most cases a simple treatment of Vaseline followed by a repeat treatment cleared up the issue. The one hen that had a persistent case was cured with two treatments of Nu-Stock ointment.

As far as what treats guineas will eat, for the most part guineas form their food likes at an early age. If they are not given access to certain foods at an early age (in the brooder), it is possible for them to ignore those foods once they are adults. For my guineas, it is unusual that they never got any BOSS (Black Oil Sunflower Seeds) until this year. Their first access to BOSS was hesitant but they have since developed a taste for it. In the case of pumpkin, they refused to even try it.

 

[Mixed flock enthusiast]

Apologies ahead of time, one for the bluekote and 2 for the shakey hand. I'll try again later-after the photo session they all flew the coop. On the left foot, 3rd toe top -that's what's left of gaping hole. You can see where a new area is starting on 1st toe, just a dark crusty dent. Middle toe where it's shiny red, that's the crack between scales, and there's one like that on other foot at ankle joint, but I didn't manage to get that. I'll try to get better pics when I bring him in. The right foot has a dark bluekote spot but it's not a wound.View attachment 1994112 View attachment 1994113 View attachment 1994115

Afraid I wasn’t able to make out much from the photos - camera didn’t focus on the feet...Maybe get some good pics and then post about her on the diseases forum? Her problems aren’t really guinea specific and there are people on that forum with experience with toe problems, mites, etc. Let us know if you post there so I can follow the thread and learn something!

As for the feeding, I feed my juvenile and adult guineas the same chick starter grower (17% CP) that our hens and roosters get. When they were molting, and after several hens went broody and lost a lot of weight incubating eggs last summer, I mixed it 1:1 with 28% CP Gamebird feed. My guineas mostly forage, so the feed is really just there for backup and to keep them coming back to the coop. While they were eating a fair amount of their feed since fall started and the grasses died back, I’ve noticed in the past few weeks that they’ve eaten very little of it, and that they are mostly away from the coop during the day. This morning I saw that they’ve discovered our huge huge pile of compositing leaves in a fence with no top. They were digging through the leaves and through the adjacent area where leaves have scattered. I would guess that they are finding insects in the leaf litter and leaf piles. I also saw them gleaning dried grasses and shrubs for seed heads. I’m thrilled that they are foraging so well and turning the leaves for us!

 

[Sydney65]

I doubted the pics wld be of much help, For now there are no deep wounds, he's getting around fine, eating and thriving,so mb the wait and see approach is best,& no more soaks. They also forage,even in the cold,so as you said, could be frostbite. I think at one point I thought that was it, but expected it to just dry up and fall of rather than create a wound. If one does open up or worsen, I'll be back in here - begging for help.
@R2elk - with all sincerity, I really do encourage you to write a book or article solely abt guinea fowl. Much out there says it includes them in poultry books, but then kind of forgets they exist, leaving the reader trying to determine if that means they should just assume they are/are not included in certain topics. I just finished the Storey Guide to Poultry that did exactly that, opting to read it bc a thread from years ago, one commenter chastised the OP, saying they should read the Storey Guide for Guinea fowl. - as far as I have searched, that doesn't exist-& though informative abt poultry, the one I did read was outdated in many respects.
Example of things not addressed - within this thread, in the beginning, I kept mentioning loose stools,and despite everything you suggested, I was still having these blobs of unformed excrement. Everything says guineas have dry,formed stools w/the urea white cap, and those were indeed present.
It wasn't until I pondered the days when my kids had rabbits that expelled cecal matter that it clicked & I went searching. Have found much written abt chicken cecal matter-but not abt guineas,or including them. So a novice like me who hasn't had poultry,reading article after article abt how dry guinea fowl poo is, doesn't get the full picture and then panics bc everyone says-and yet here's this sticky blob.
I realize that makes me sound like an idiot who probably shouldn't have started off w/guineas. When I think of the ones I lost in those first days- I'd have to agree. As I looked at that site w/pictures of the varieties. & felt the tug for keets, I realized I'm not ready to add to my little group. But there are going to be more well-intentioned but clueless ppl who for whatever reason and up getting a box of keets through the mail. - and I thank you from the bottom of my heart for helping me keep mine alive.

 

[R2elk]

I doubted the pics wld be of much help, For now there are no deep wounds, he's getting around fine, eating and thriving,so mb the wait and see approach is best,& no more soaks. They also forage,even in the cold,so as you said, could be frostbite. I think at one point I thought that was it, but expected it to just dry up and fall of rather than create a wound. If one does open up or worsen, I'll be back in here - begging for help.
@R2elk - with all sincerity, I really do encourage you to write a book or article solely abt guinea fowl. Much out there says it includes them in poultry books, but then kind of forgets they exist, leaving the reader trying to determine if that means they should just assume they are/are not included in certain topics. I just finished the Storey Guide to Poultry that did exactly that, opting to read it bc a thread from years ago, one commentor chastised the OP, saying they should read the Storey Guide for Guinea fowl. - as far as I have searched, that doesn't exist-& though informative abo0ut poultry, the one I did read was outdated in many respects.
Example of things not addressed - within this thread, in the beginning, I kept mentioning loose stools,and despite everything you suggested, I was still having these blobs of unformed excrement. Everything says guineas have dry,formed stools w/the urea white cap, and those were indeed present.
It wasn't until I pondered the days when my kids had rabbits that expelled cecal matter that it clicked & I went searching. Have found much written abt chicken cecal matter-but not abt guineas,or including them. So a novice like me who hasn't had poultry,reading article after article abt how dry guinea fowl poo is, doesn't get the full picture and then panics bc everyone says-and yet here's this sticky blob.
I realize that makes me sound like an idiot who probably shouldn't have started off w/guineas. When I think of the ones I lost in those first days- I'd have to agree. As I looked at that site w/pictures of the varieties. & felt the tug for keets, I realized I'm not ready to add to my little group. But there are going to be more well-intentioned but clueless ppl who for whatever reason and up getting a box of keets through the mail. - and I thank you from the bottom of my heart for helping me keep mine alive.

Too many people do not realize just how different guinea fowl are from other poultry. As far as the excrement, I don't normally pay any attention to it. My guineas leave solid droppings and wet droppings. There is no reason to think that guinea fowl are any different than any other fowl when it comes to having cecal and normal excrement. For mine, the "wet" droppings are either first thing in the morning or during hot periods when they are going through a lot of water.

Wound or open sore treatments for guineas should be the same as for other poultry. Minor injuries, I leave alone. I have used Blu-Kote as a treatment which helps stop the others from pecking at the bloodied area. If you want to, you can treat wounds with neosporin. It works very well on me and should work well on guinea fowl too. I am not a fan of bandaging wounds as I feel exposure to the air is helpful.

If it is frostbite, I don't do anything. Frostbite is not likely to occur due to foraging in the snow and cold. It is more likely to happen due to roosts that prevent the guineas from covering their feet with their body and feathers or due to a poorly ventilated coop with too much humidity and condensation.

 

[Sydney65]

Me again. Today I caught Bella several times trying to peck Blu's feet. He kept moving away , raising his foot, and finally just sat down. I scooped him up & left (original) and now right. I cleaned him up and dressed to discourage further pecking. Still no one else with issues.
For now Blu is in the run with food, everyone else is grazing.

 

[Sydney65]

*until today, the left was closed up with little more than a dent.

 

[Mixed flock enthusiast]

Me again. Today I caught Bella several times trying to peck Blu's feet. He kept moving away , raising his foot, and finally just sat down. I scooped him up & left (original) and now right. I cleaned him up and dressed to discourage further pecking. Still no one else with issues.
For now Blu is in the run with food, everyone else is grazing. View attachment 1995961View attachment 1995964

Oh, poor Blu!!! So, are those two different feet? The one doesn’t look bad, but I guess that the other has lost the last digit? It almost looks like it would best be amputated at the next joint... I’m sure vet expenses would be hard when you have newborn twins??? I’m guessing that open wound will be very attractive to the rest of your flock wanting to peck it...