Wood's Coop Roost bars - how many deep?

[cholland]

I have an 8x12 woods coop. I installed two roost bars. 30" from the floor. 15" on center from back wall and 15" apart. Leaves room for a third in the back 4' of the coop if I ever want it. 2x4 on their side.
The chickens love it and yeah they pack in about 12 birds on one 8' roost, even where there is plenty more room on the other roost.

 

[kwhites634]

The notion of 2 x 4's wide side up and frostbitten feet may be the greatest myth that exists on BYC. Almost silly on it's face, but a lot of folks fall for it.

https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/proper-design-of-roost-bars.1197058/

Everyone's entitled to an opinion; makes the world go 'round

 

[Howard E]

So far, I'm the only one who has submitted scientific research on the topic.....with more coming.

Everything else is anecdotal, opinion / dogma. Dogma defined as,

"a point of view or tenet put forth as authoritative without adequate grounds"

Or anecdotal evidence......

"(of an account) not necessarily true or reliable, because based on personal accounts rather than facts or research"

So if a 2x4 wide side up is essential to prevent frostbitten toes, how cold does it have to get for this to kick in? My birds have repeatedly gone through winters with several days of 0F and colder (as low as -10F) with no frostbite. Even so, only 10 days or so max at 0F or colder. So NOT needed the other 355 days. So how cold and for how long?

Second, to prevent this frostbite, do the birds cease wrapping their front toes over the edge and instead crouch down/balance on the 2 x 4 without any benefit of hanging on? Basically the same as they would do on the ground? If only balanced, would they not be better off on a 2 x 6 or even 2 x 8? Or wouldn't they simply move over to the nests and pile in there where they could bed down on a soft pile of nesting material? If they generally prefer wide boards over a 2 x 2 roost bar, where is the scientific evidence that counters the research I cited?

If they do wrap their toes over the front and crouch down to cover those toes with fluffed feathers, how does that differ from a 2 x 2? Would they not do the exact same thing?

Want more scientific evidence?

This from the certified humane bunch on proper housing for laying hens. The entire regs listed here....

http://certifiedhumane.org/wp-content/uploads/Std18.Layers.3A-5.pdf

To cut to the chase as far as roosts are concerned....here is the pertinent parts........

E 29: Design of perches
a.There must be a gap of no less than 0.5 in( 1.3 cm) on either side of any perch to allow hens to grip the perches without risk of trapping their claws.
b.Hens must be able to wrap their toes around the perch and balance evenly in a relaxed posture for an extended period. Perches must be at least 1.0” (2.54 cm) wide at the top (rounded perches must have a diameter of not less 1.0”( 2.54 cm and not greater than 3” ( 7.6 cm)), have no sharp edges, be capped at the ends if hollow, be of a non-slip material, and be reasonably clean and dry.
c.
Perches must be positioned to minimize dirtying of any hens below and, when possible, must be over a droppings pit or manure belt.

So there is the science on it. Must be able to wrap their toes around it and not greater than 3". Hmmmmmm.

 

[Alaskan]

my birds sit on their perches with their feet flat.... the toes are not bent over the front.

Not sure what to tell you. .. no scientific research here.... but every so often I will get a bantam flying up high and perching on a skinny spot... and then her toes get frostbit.

So... my experience continues to hold true.

I do live on the coast, so I am sure higher humidity plays a large part.

I get down to -10F most winters, and more rarely to -20.

But up here when we get cold it stays there for at least a month if not for 4.

 

[Alaskan]

and it isn't just me.... the majority of people up here whose birds get frostbit feet used skinnier perches. .. or some oops (bird jumped in a water pan late at night... got locked out of the coop, etc.)... or it got to -60

 

[Howard E]

If that is the case, then folks in your climate may be a rare exception. If so, I would also submit that anyone keeping birds in your extreme climate have to do things none of the rest of us do. If providing a flat surface (no perch or roost bar to grasp) to roost upon fits the ticket, then fine with me. I would also be curious to know how someone like the humane.org bunch would address this extreme condition since that method runs counter to their standards.

But for the rest of the world, to recommend providing what is known to be opposite what the needs of birds are.....advice that runs counter to years and years of scientific research into poultry husbandry and physiology for the non valid reason given (keeping toes warm) has to be corrected. There are far too many folks who will accept this on it's face and never question it and they would be wrong to do so.

I may not be as diplomatic as I should be, but the notion still stands.

And until someone can refute this with any form of valid scientific research that proves otherwise, I see no reason to alter my advice.

Everything I can find that is based on scientific research says one thing. The only place I find evidence of the other is based on dogma or where folks are simply parroting what they have seen or heard elsewhere. It is because someone once said it is. That does not make it right.

 

[Chickassan]

I had to switch to flat wide roosts simply because my birds kept falling off the round ones. I do have a skinner flat roost for youngsters and smaller footed ones, but my fat chickens roost flat footed resting on their bellies. My game birds would only roost on round or extremely thin roosts. I don't think there is a cut and dried standard, it just depends on what works for you and yours.

 

[Howard E]

Actually there is a standard.........more or less, depending on your birds. But in general, is is very close to a 2" x 2" or nominal 1.5" x 1.5".

http://www.yourchickens.co.uk/care-and-advice/the-perfect-perch-1-2842822

That was a lay summary of a more detailed scientific paper. And similar to what was known to researchers 100 years ago. Also supported by the humane.org standards in a previous post in this thread. All scientific evidence suggests pretty much the same thing.

Dogma and anecdotes, but no research yet.

 

[Chickassan]

About 75% of my girls would end up in the floor if I took that to heart. Interesting read though. The big flaw that stuck out was the hens were only offered round roosts, of course they'll pick one of the round ones if that is all there is.

Actually there is a standard.........more or less, depending on your birds. But in general, is is very close to a 2" x 2" or nominal 1.5" x 1.5".

http://www.yourchickens.co.uk/care-and-advice/the-perfect-perch-1-2842822

That was a lay summary of a more detailed scientific paper. And similar to what was known to researchers 100 years ago. Also supported by the humane.org standards in a previous post in this thread. All scientific evidence suggests pretty much the same thing.

Dogma and anecdotes, but no research yet.

 

[Peppercorngal]

I'd put those roosts higher. They need to be higher than the nesting boxes, or the chickens will be tempted to sleep in the nest boxes. The higher the better in my opinion. Also chickens will fight over the best roosting place so the more space they can have the better. Looks like very nice coop!