Worming chickens?

[Ridgerunner]

Thanks for the thread Sumi. I’ve read several on here like that, maybe even that one and usually with Dawg taking a leading part. I went through it but could not find any posts by Chooks4life, with or without links.

I’m not playing the links game. If someone has links that they think leads to something reliable I’ll go look, but there is just too much out there for me to spend that much time looking for something that may or may not be acceptable. As Chooks said, you can find anything you want on the net.

As an example, this is the type of study I’m looking for. I know it is on goats, not chickens, but it actually tests different things (pumpkin seeds, papaya, ginger and garlic) under controlled conditions by people without an agenda.

http://mysare.sare.org/mySARE/ProjectReport.aspx?do=viewRept&pn=LNE08-269&y=2012&t=1

Of the things tested it shows pumpkin seeds as the most promising but there are a few problems with that. A quote from the study.

Based on the results of these studies, the most promising natural/plant dewormer appears to be pumpkin seeds, especially when administered as a drench. Even though significant reductions were not observed, numerically the pumpkin seed groups had the lowest fecal egg counts and required fewer dewormings in most cases (Appendix 2 – 5). As for the other products tested, none appeared to have the fecal egg count lowering ability as pumpkin seeds.

The reason the drench was mentioned is that goats ate around ground pumpkin seeds in the earlier studies. I know this was goats, not chickens, but it loses its effectiveness if the goats won’t eat it.

 

[chooks4life]

I did a simple search using obvious keywords on Google and found numerous links to studies, including by PubMed etc, as I said anyone who wants to find out which plants kill parasites can easily do it. Anyone who doesn't find them, (assuming they know how to use an internet browser) almost certainly doesn't want to and I respect their decision to remain ignorant on the subject.

I rarely provide links because most people aren't even interested enough to go do a simple search, they take an antagonistic stance without bothering to learn about the subject, when in fact the information is readily accessible. This point is only ever proven time and time again. Why should I bother to go find information they refuse to acknowledge the existence of?

Personal choice, as we're all entitled to. Not that it is some kind of validation for authoritative statements for or against anything, lol.

Anyway, best wishes.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Pumpkin7734 I'm sorry your thread was the vehicle for this. This type of thing sometimes happens on here on a lot of different topics. Please don't let this sour you on this forum, there is a lot of good information on a lot of topics from a lot of people with lots of experience. Some of these threads degenerate into name-calling and other forms of disrespect and get shut down. I'm glad this one did not spiral out of control.

Each of us have out own unique situation, goals, and experiences. We are all different with different goals, set-ups, climates, and management methods.. Just like any other forum on the internet you need to try to decide which of the information, advice, and suggestions on here fit your unique situation and try to adapt them. There is seldom one and only one right way to do anything, many different things can work.

Chooks, I certainly agree to disagree on this subject. You have made your choices for your own reasons and based on your experiences. I have obviously made other choices. After all, we do often agree on many other topics. Best wishes to you.

 

[chooks4life]

Thanks Ridgerunner, I agree with that. I already apologized to the OP, probably should have taken this to PM or something to debate it, though it's harder to do when it seems someone's attacking your statements (which apparently was not the case).

Natural worming methods appear to be disastrous when used by those who haven't done enough research into it, or anyone who has found incorrect information on it, and I can understand why many think they're worthless, especially with the endless back and forth of studies against/for it. I assumed they were worthless until I'd tested it for myself... Previously I'd used chemical wormers to be sure, and still will for some species if necessary until I know the safe way to do it naturally and effectively which takes education and experience. Hence the reason I suggest chemical wormers are safer for newbies to use just to make sure they're worm free since the life of the animal is more important than therapeutic preferences. Too many people on this forum have somehow failed to make it work, however that happened, chooks died and that's not an outcome anybody wants or accepts.

I read the thread Sumi offered a link to and won't bother addressing the numerous issues with it. I found it funny Dawg said one post by one person was 'proof positive that natural wormers don't work' --- in which case, using the same criteria, any post I write about natural wormers working are 'proof positive that natural wormers do work'. :/ Neither statement is 100% true when unqualified. It'd be like someone saying 'chemical wormers don't work' because they misused or underdosed or used one which the worms were immune to, which happens quite often. Plenty to learn in using artificial or natural wormers effectively and a lot of it is using the right ones and double checking that it works.

Sorry for my tone, I don't intend to be snarky here, only in retrospect am I seeing the flaws in how I'm communicating... Story of my life, lol. I don't believe this is a wrong/right issue, just alternatives in methods, one of which is harder for newbies to implement.

Best wishes.

 

[bobbi-j]

I have never wormed my chickens and have never seen any sign of infestation in my flocks. I would not worm them unless I saw a problem. I see no reason to. Just my opinion and how I do things. Good luck with your flock, OP.

 

[chooks4life]

That does work for some, but not for others, some people suffer losses before seeing any signs of trouble. Not an attack on your methods Bobbi-J, if they're working for you then they're working, and for sure plenty of people have similar experiences, but just pointing out to the OP an issue that some experience in the absence of signs of infestation.

I worm because even when I don't see signs, in new stock I've brought in, a strong worming regimen often tends to produce large dead/dying worms from birds who otherwise looked healthy. So I just assume and treat in the absence of proof, which isn't generally too recommendable for many whether using natural or chemical wormers, though the latter is generally less safe. I don't think most healthy adult birds suffer from worms, I'd love to find out why some flocks are so afflicted and others not, there are numerous studies into that and the genetic influence and immune system influence on parasite susceptibility, but nothing yet easily and comprehensively offering people external methods of discerning the weak from the strong and thereby enabling them to select for it. Trial and error is about the only option there.

Best wishes.