Worming Goats

[helmstead]

I stand behind a statement I made awhile back - if you're having success with herbal treatments for parasites, then it is likely you never had a parasite problem to begin with. Until someone shows me positive fecals, followed by herbal treatment with follow-up clean fecals - I don't buy it. To date, no one has been able to provide this but many people have had evidence to the fact that it doesn't work (including ME).

 

[buckeye chickens]

herbal treatment are not safe. Most have wormwood, a plant that can can mess up there liver, kidneys and nervous system. The FDA does not have to research herbal worms so the maker can say its safe for pregnant goats and no milk withdrawal BUT its due to not being research by the FDA.
My bother is in O.S.U. vets school and he also after reading the facts says that herbal dewormers are not safe and no sudys back it up.
Goats are dewormed way to much. If the goat has dark pink eyelids/gums and looks heathy then it is. We go as long as a year before we deworm some of our goats.
When a goat does have worms a good dewormer should be used at a larger amount then the dose for cattle or sheep.

 

[Blackbird]

Well Kate, the next time one of my goats has worms, I'll have to do a before and after fecal for you. You said they do not work, but for me and many others, they have, and I will stand behind that. I hope you also realize it depends on what kind of worms and herbs the person is dealing with.

To Buckeye, the Famacha is not ALWAYS the best way to determine whether or not they have worms, but I agree that it is usually a good way to determine, depending on the worm. As for wormwood, I grow it, but I do not use it in herbal wormers.

Edit for typo.

 

[ksacres]

Quote:
And now I'm seconding Helmstead. Herbal wormers are not only ineffective, but they are also (this is the part you need to pay attention to) documented to have caused severe toxic reactions (I'm not talking anaphylactic shock {which can occur with nearly anything in a susceptible goat}, I'm talking poisening), up to and including death. Show me a goat that was poisened/od'd by Ivermectin, and I'll show you a goat that had some underlying condition (like liver failure from poor nutrition).

Herbals are NOT researched or approved by the FDA. There is no "approved safe level" of herbal wormer. The strength can vary bottle by bottle and you have no recourse.

Why would you put something in your goat that isn't safe (or effective) when there are plenty of other options that are?

One other reason I like Ivermectin (aside from it's incredible margin of saftey) is that it takes care of external parasites as well. The lower number of chemicals I have to put in or on them, the better.

 

[Goattalker]

Please post veterinary statistics that demonstrate the effectiveness of herbal wormers. This debate has been going on for years, and in the 10 years I have watched it, NOT ONE herbal supporter has put forth a single study that demonstrates their effective worming routine via herbal remedies. Think about it, the ingredient in the herbal that kills the worms, would have to be high enough to kill the goat, before the wormer would work.

There is a WELL KNOWN farm that is all over the Internet, that people quote day in and day out that uses herbal wormers. Guess what, I know 2 people who bought from that herd, and both new owners found fecals FULL of parasites. One of the goats died from a parasite impaction, because the new owner was trying to rid her of parasites, and there were so many the blocked the bowel. Herbal wormers do NOT work.

 

[jvls1942]

Quote:
Herbal Worm formula? That's what I am looking for-some sort of natural product that will get rid of any parasites while still not putting drugs into the goat or milk. The organic approach.

I just got my goats and have been reading with interest about copper bolus--does that target parasites at all?

Do the goat experts here treat on a regular schedule for parasites, assuming they will always be in the environment, or do you look for them in the manure?

I hope I'm not hijacking here, but it seems these questions fit in with the original one

when I had goats, I used to give them long grain smoking/chewing tobacco.. I bought the cheapest kind I could find .. about an once per day for a week would do it.. then occasionally just for a snack..

the goats went ape for it..

to tell if your goats have worms, carefully roll their eyelid inside out and observe.. If it is nice and pink, OK. If is appears pale or white, it is (sp) annimic...

 

[Chatychick]

I agree with Goattalker as the herbals just dont do it...I use Ivermectin and ivermectin plus when I worm and when its time to worm I worm and wait 10 days and worm again the use a different wormer and use it 10 days later. Thats what I do when I get new goats. then they join the others and get on their schedule. Chemical wormers are used in other countrys to worm people so they wont hurt the goats and as far as milk we drink it, some do wait but at least I know I am worm free...

 

[Blackbird]

There needs to be studies behind every single thing in order for it to work? That's new. If you all haven't had success with alternative worming, I'm sorry to hear that. I was simply telling Kate that I have had success with it. I NEVER said that Ivermectin (or any other chemical wormer) doesn't work and that no one should use it. No one needs to get their undies in a bunch. If you think I'm wrong, so be it. I'm not causing any harm to you OR your animals by saying that, so there is no reason for everyone to start telling me that it is bad and that I'm absolutley wrong.
As for 'herbal wormers' cause 'poisoning'.. do you know which ingrediant included in it poisoned them? Many herbal wormers use a variety of herbs and many herbs are very safe and are found in nature that wild animals are easily willing consume and will often go out of their way to find. The point of herbal healing is that it is natural.
Having said that, in the five years of owning goats whiler using herbal wormers, we've only lost oneand that was to ketosis.
If you don't agree with me, then ok, but I'm not going to fight about it.

This has gotten off subject, I think the original poster wanted to know what wormer to use, not chemical vs herbal.
I'm done here.

 

[jvls1942]

Quote:
I know how you feel.. just makes you want to throw your hands up and scream, doesn't it??

I think us midwesterners have a whole different way of looking at things..

just hang in there..

...jiminwisc........

 

[ksacres]

Quote:
Huh, that's weird. I coulda sworn I'm from Indiana.

*Makes note to check birth certificate and home of record paperwork*

Quote:
How is chemical vs. herbal(which are ALSO chemicals, thank you chemistry major) off topic? Is it not still about which wormer to use? Must be losing my mind...


Quote:
I'm not touching that. And neither should you.

In the FIFTEEN years I've been raising goats, I have gone from an all-natural (no wormers, no minerals, no supplements or medications of any kind) horned proponent to a disbudding, preventative maintenance, responsible medication weilding breeder. You will get there eventually too. I know you will, sometimes the goats have to suffer while you take the long way.