Worming your flock

[TJAnonymous]

I'm curious what people are doing to control worms and other internal parasites in their flock? I have been on the hunt for a good wormer. Here's a breakdown of my previous attempts and where I'm at now:

In Feb 2020 - I moved to a new farm where I "adopted" 2 goats and 15 chickens from the previous owner. The goats are housed with the chickens and help to keep predators at bay. I haven't had time or resources to change the existing set-up so I've allowed them to continue to co-habitate together and added (after a period of quarantine) 6 chickens that I already had to the mix. At first, I was worming the goats every month with a goat wormer pellet. I would throw some on the ground to allow the chickens to eat the wormer since the packaging indicated it was safe for other livestock and there were also chickens on the package. However, I've seen posts and indications online that you can't or shouldn't eat eggs for a period of time after giving your chickens a chemical wormer. Went looking for a new method.

April 2020 - I came across Verm-X on Amazon and got a large tub for a great deal. It is an all-natural wormer and my chickens love it. It lasted for a 4 months and I ran out. When I tried to reorder, I discovered that Amazon no longer sells it in the US. A quick Google search indicates that the company is based out of the UK. You CAN get Verm-X from their website and even from Amazon UK, but it is nearly double the cost of the original bucket I ordered. The pro-side of Verm-X is that there is no effect to the eggs because the ingredients are all-natural.

Where I'm at now -
I spent quite a bit time looking at different wormers from feed stores (all chemical based) and at the all-natural wormer from Durvet. The Durvet option is expensive. It is nearly $17/bag for only 10 oz. My chickens would go through that in 1-2 weeks. When I looked closer at the Verm-X site, they list the ingredients as:

Wheat Meal, Verm-X (Cinnamon, Garlic, Thyme, Peppermint, Fennel, Cleavers, Nettles, Slippery Elm, Quassia, Cayenne), Wheatfeed Meal, Calcium Carbonate, Seaweed Meal, Sunflower Oil, Dicalcium Phosphate, Salt. Analysis: Protein 16%, Ash 10%, Fibre 7.5%, Oil 3%

I'm thinking this could be easily or generally replicated as a DIY? Maybe even throw in some probiotics (which are cheap at the feed store) or some other goodies like pumpkin seeds. I could easily mix this into some scrambled eggs or add it to a feed block. What are your thoughts?

 

[Pyxis]

Those all natural type dewormers are likely not doing anything for you. Studies have been done on a lot of the ingredients in these, and found that they're not really doing anything.

Here's one on garlic, which is one of the ingredients that's supposed to be deworming in Verm-X. As you can see, all the chickens treated with it had worms at the end of the study, and had the same parasite load as chickens that weren't treated with anything.

Here's one where they tested a herb mixture of Garlic, Cinnamon (another ingredient in Verm-X), and Mugwort on goats, and again found that there was no difference in parasite egg counts among the control group and the test group. This one's in German, so you might not be able to read it all without translating, but the Abstract where they state their findings is in English.

I wasn't able to find real studies that were done on the other ingredients, so they may not have been studied.

So that said, I'd skip spending money on this type of 'dewormer'.

May I ask why you are treating them so often? Do you know you have worms in your goats and chickens? Have you been seeing symptoms like weight loss or worm eggs or worms in the feces?

If not, you really don't need to be deworming them as often as you are. Chickens can be done every six months, if you want, as a preventative type thing, but it's not really needed unless they or the goats they live with are showing signs of worms.

I don't have goats, but it seems that they too only need to be dewormed if they show signs of worms, like pale mucous membranes. Or, you can just take a fecal sample to your vet and ask them to run it. It'll probably be $10 tops and then you'll know for sure if you need to deworm or not.

And if you're looking for a dewormer that works for both goats and chickens, get Safeguard Liquid Goat Dewormer. Obviously, it can be used in goats. Chickens can have it too. The dosage is .23 mls per pound of body weight for chickens. It does need to be given directly orally, you cannot mix it in the feed or water. Easiest way to do it is to just go down the roost at night when they're sleeping and dose them all then. Then you repeat in ten days, and you're done unless/until they get worms again.

While Fenbendazole (the active ingredient in Safeguard) hasn't been approved for use in poultry in the US yet (and very few things have) it HAS been approved in the UK, and has been approved to have a 0 day (so no) egg withdrawal period.

 

[pibb]

While Fenbendazole (the active ingredient in Safeguard) hasn't been approved for use in poultry in the US yet (and very few things have) it HAS been approved in the UK, with the dosage I provided above, and has been approved to have a 0 day (so no) egg withdrawal period.

That documents says "Fenbendazole - In the United Kingdom, fenbendazole oral suspension is approved for treatment of gastrointestinal nematodes in laying hens at a dose of 1 mg/kg (0.45 mg/lb), PO, for 5 days with a 0-day egg withdrawal and 6-day meat withdrawal.".

That does not equal 0.23 ml per lb of body weight with SafeGuard 10% Fenbendazole. That equals 0.005 ml per lb of body weight when using SafeGuard 10% Fenbendazole which is a tiny amount daily for 5 days. A higher dose would have a higher percentage in the egg residue sample and technically not "approved for use".

 

[Pyxis]

That documents says "Fenbendazole - In the United Kingdom, fenbendazole oral suspension is approved for treatment of gastrointestinal nematodes in laying hens at a dose of 1 mg/kg (0.45 mg/lb), PO, for 5 days with a 0-day egg withdrawal and 6-day meat withdrawal.".

That does not equal 0.23 ml per lb of body weight with SafeGuard 10% Fenbendazole. That equals 0.005 ml per lb of body weight when using SafeGuard 10% Fenbendazole which is a tiny amount daily for 5 days. A higher dose would have a higher percentage in the egg residue sample and technically not "approved for use".

My bad, you're right, the dosage in that article is different. I will fully admit I didn't double check and do the math on the dosage. I didn't notice how low that dosage in that article was recommending. That's very low. I wouldn't go with that dosage, honestly.

The dosage to give to chickens is 50 mg/kg. It's also been shown that a dosage of at least 20 mg/kg, given three days in a row, is the minimum needed to kill most types of worms.

Anyway, my point was more that other countries have indeed approved Fenbendazole use in poultry. It's just not been approved yet in the US

 

[pibb]

No problem. I actually thought it was approved in the US but don't know where I came up with that now.

Here is the zero day withdrawal thread. Actually that looks like where you got the "23" number, just a decimal point off and for 5 lbs of weight.

 

[Pyxis]

Actually that looks like where you got the "23" number, just a decimal point off and for 5 lbs of weight.

I was going with the dosage for a 50 mg/kg dose - that does come out to .23 ml per pound with the 10% liquid, haha.

 

[pibb]

It is approved in the US, the same as the UK, at 1 mg/kg BW (0.454 mg/lb)/day for 5 consecutive days. 10% Fenbendazole is 0.005 ml/lb daily for 5 days.

Search for active ingredient "fenbendazole".

 

[casportpony]

No problem. I actually thought it was approved in the US but don't know where I came up with that now.

Fenbendazole at 1 mg/kg for five consecutive days is approved in the US for treating large roundworms and cecal worms. This dose will not treat other worms though.

 

[casportpony]

I was going with the dosage for a 50 mg/kg dose - that does come out to .23 ml per pound with the 10% liquid, haha.

Yes, 10% liquid or 10% paste.