WORMS ANYONE?:-~)

[cmcanallen]

I'll talk to my DH and do somemore research. Hopefully I'll be able to join you in the adventure of worm farming soon.

 

[Dotshines]

I have been looking into meal worm farming for my chickens. I have had areas in my yard that I put card board and vegetable scraps and have had a lot of worms, but I would like to try a worm tower. It is interesting to see what everyone is doing.

 

[celticgarden]

I wanted to try soldier fly larva and had them growing naturally in my compost pile this past fall. I just couldn't justify starting a new project. I have a worm composter (tower). I didn't have much luck. We got fruit flies in the Summer (it was in the basement) and although he didn't comment on it I determined that it was driving DH crazy. Once it was outside it got less attention and failed.

 

[gaitngirl]

I just ordered a worm tower for red worm wiggles...castings actually! Should be up and running within the next week, and starting with 1000 wigglers. Since I will have occupants for the coop by March, I figured if the worm population increases in size as my research says it it will (double every 30 days) the excess will make awesome treats for the hens.

I've been doing the vermiculture thing for a couple of years now. I have several different systems but the easiest and most successful are my worm bins (rubbermaid or sterilite totes with holes drilled in them for ventilation and drainage). The harvesting isn't quite as easy as purported with the tower systems but the tower systems have other issues.
The worm population doubles approx. every 4 months (barring any issues - mites, protein poisoning, etc.).
I love gardening with the castings. What a difference in the plant growth! I treat my houseplants to 'worm tea' on a regular basis, too. Don't use the stuff that collects in the bottom of the tower on your plants, though . . . all of the systems out there say it's great for plants, gardens, etc. but it has to be watered down a lot to be safe for plants. I just take a small handful of the castings themselves and soak them in water for the tea.
You will be a worm addict before you know it, lol. Don't be surprised if you have a hard time feeding your worms to your chooks. I had Black Soldier Fly Larva for a year - the chickens go ape for those!!! - but they were too hard to keep going this far north. One of these days I'll give them a go again . . .

Good luck with your worms!

 

[gaitngirl]

A worm tower seems to be the easiest way to vermicompost, I watched quite a few you tube videos and had to agree it seemed the most efficient way to get worm castings. I ordered my tower thru Gardens Alive, but there are many options. It is set up and I actually should have my red wiggles (the best because they will eat their weight, and instinctually wiggle upwards and not down....) by tomorrow. It should take a month to get fully established but it will be perfect timing for having enough castings for the spring. While researching the red wiggles and being on this forum, much to my husband's dismay...I went ahead and ordered 500 mealworms from Uncle Jim's worm farm, to start raising for my hens...it looks easy enough, but oh boy! I may have gone a bit overboard on the whole worm raising! I would love to have some company in this forum to be able to compare experiences with (hint hint!) so do some research and post!

I haven't done mealworms (have considered it, though) but I've been doing the red wiggler (EF's) thing for awhile now and love it. I had Black Soldier Fly Larva, too - those are amazing! - but I am too far north to keep a colony going.
If you ever want to talk worms just let me know. I have 4 homemade worm bins, a Can-O-Worms tower, and a Worm Inn (bag system). I have EF's, a few European Reds mixed in, and worms from the horse's manure pile (I call them pasture worms) that seem to co-exist with the EF's quite well.

 

[Kikiriki]

Found about 15 to 20 of these in my earthbox style planter today.

 

[Kikiriki]

Ithink they are african nightcrawlers that hatched out from when I was draing excess fluid out from my bins. I have a bin of them and a bin of red wigglers. i used an old large styrofoam cooler as an experiment and it really helps moderate temperature swings. This is my first year and it has been an experiment for starting a business. I am satisfied now that
I can keep them alive! They will only get organic food and no food that has been nibbled by germy humans. I know worms kill pathogens, but I worry about pathogens surviving in the castings through contact with contaminated foods. Anyone have info on this ?

 

[Kikiriki]

Ok, this might sound like a silly question but what is a worm tower?

I want to get a couple worm composters but don't know where to start.

It is so easy, but you need to think about some things: how much compostable food waste do you have? This helps you choose if you want a small order of worms that you can allow to multiply over time, or if you want a big order right now to start dealing with waste quickly.

For example, my mom got a small bin (shoebox size) that came with just 10 to 15 worms: it was a year before she had enough castings for anything, and they ate hardly anything! Worms eat thier weight in food each day, so if you only average 1/2 pound of vegetable waste a day, you only need a half pound of worms.

Do you have extra space in the freezer? I use about a square foot for the times when I have a load of stuff is too much to go in the bin: like during summer when we have cantaloupe and watermelon, I freeze the some of the rinds because too much food at once will cause problems: fruit flies, odors, or heating from composting bacterial action that gets hot enough to kill the worms. You do not have to do the freezer thing,of course, but is nice to have it for when I just don't have waste for them.

Do you have room in the house somewhere for them or do you plan to have them outside? This helps decide not just how big a container you can have, but which types of worms to get. Some are a little more cold or heat tolerant than others, but if they stay in your house and have moderated temps, it will not make much difference. If you pick a spot in the house it should ideally be in a dark place, away from drafts or breezes caused by vents. My mom kept hers under her china cabinet on the floor. Other people like them under the sink so they are right there in the kitchen. I keep mine outside because I have a small house, and a lot of worms!

Are you wanting to use them for some other purpose? Fishing? This also affects which type to get. I cannot remember which freshwater fish likes which worm best... One worm handles brackish water better.

Do you want to use them as animal food? I did the math and found that to supplement protein for my chickens getting a 12% feed, they would have to eat 80 live worms per day each, because worms are mainly water. If you plan for this, some breeds do reproduce more quickly than others, so that would affect your choice of worm. Giving them as a snack does not require calculating protein, of course...


Feeding is easy, but they do not eat everything: I have seen my worms react to bananas like they were poison! People have said they do not like potato much, especially if they are sprouting. Citrus is bad, as are other acidic foods like ginger, vinegar... They will mot eat seeds. I do not give my worms paper or cardboard or use it as bedding: paper contains heavy metals like cadmium... I gather dried leaves and crush them up. I use a variety from my yard. Dried grass is good as long as you do not use pesticides on the lawn. Dog, cat and people waste is not good, chicken waste has to be either washed or let to stand for a year, but rabbitt waste, horse or cow manure is fine as long as you know the animal has not been wormed recently.

My mom had trouble with her bins getting so wet they were like mud in a box. A container should have drainage at the bottom and nest inside another container so the worm bin is raised an inch or so to catch the liquid runoff. Holes in containers need to be really small, though: the worms can go through window screen easily: even the big ones do it.

So if you want to discuss all the above, I can help you make selections of breed, and I am sure others will, too!

 

[cmcanallen]

It is so easy, but you need to think about some things: how much compostable food waste do you have? This helps you choose if you want a small order of worms that you can allow to multiply over time, or if you want a big order right now to start dealing with waste quickly.

For example, my mom got a small bin (shoebox size) that came with just 10 to 15 worms: it was a year before she had enough castings for anything, and they ate hardly anything! Worms eat thier weight in food each day, so if you only average 1/2 pound of vegetable waste a day, you only need a half pound of worms.

Do you have extra space in the freezer? I use about a square foot for the times when I have a load of stuff t too much to go in the bin: like during summer when we have cantaloupe and watermelon, I freeze the some of the rinds because too much food at once will cause problems: fruit flies, odors, or heating from composting bacterial action that gets hot enough to kill the worms. You do not have to do the freezer thing,of course, but is nice to have it for when I just don't have waste for them.

Do you have room in the house somewhere for them or do you plan to have them outside? This helps decide not just how big a container you can have, but which types of worms to get. Some are a little more cold or heat tolerant than others, but if they stay in your house and have moderated temps, it will not make much difference. If you pick a spot in the house it should ideally be in a dark place, away from drafts or breezes caused by vents. My mom kept hers under her china cabinet on the floor. Other people like them under the sink so they are right there in the kitchen. I keep mine outside because I have a small house, and a lot of worms!

Are you wanting to use them for some other purpose? Fishing? This also affects which type to get. I cannot remember which freshwater fish likes which worm best... One worm handles brackish water better.

Do you want to use them as animal food? I did the math and found that to supplement protein for my chickens getting a 12% feed, they would have to eat 80 live worms per day each, because worms are mainly water. If you plan for this, some breeds do reproduce more quickly than others, so that would affect your choice of worm. Giving them as a snack does not require calculating protein, of course...


Feeding is easy, but they do not eat everything: I have seen my worms react to bananas like they were poison! People have said they do not like potato much, especially if they are sprouting. Citrus is bad, as are other acidic foods like ginger, vinegar... They will mot eat seeds. I do not give my worms paper or cardboard or use it as bedding: paper contains heavy metals like cadmium... I gather dried leaves and crush them up. I use a variety from my yard. Dried grass is good as long as you do not use pesticides on the lawn. Dog, cat and people waste is not good, chicken waste has to be either washed or let to stand for a year, but rabbitt waste, horse or cow manure is fine as long as you know the animal has not been wormed recently.

My mom had trouble with her bins getting so wet they were like mud in a box. A container should have drainage at the bottom and nest inside another container so the worm bin is raised an inch or so to catch the liquid runoff. Holes in containers need to be really small, though: the worms can go through window screen easily: even the big ones do it.

So if you want to discuss all the above, I can help you make selections of breed, and I am sure others will, too!

Thanks for all the info.

I have a lot of food/paper product waste. Even with 11 people in the house, we still have some leftovers that go to waste. The 3 dogs get any dairy and meat/protein leftovers, everything else goes into the composter. I end up dumping a 5gallon bucket of veggies, fruit and paper products into the compost pile every 3rd day.

From my research brings me to believe that night crawlers and red worms would do best here. Dry, hot hot hot, and very little rain is what I have to deal with.

I'm considering using my barrel composter (where everything is right now) to break down the food compost just so the scavengers won't get into it. And then just a pile for the grass clippings, pine needles, leaves and burn pile leftovers. I want to use worms in both of these composters. The barrel's 75 gallons and the rest, well I have enough right now to make a pile 3ft high and cover a 6x15 foot area. That being said, the worms will definately be outside.

I'm sure we'll harvest some for fishing but that only occurs on weekends and for the most part, the guys use flies instead of worms (YECK!!!). I will want to allow the chickens to eat some worms but since I'm probley not getting chickens for another year, they'll have time to multiply. I also want to seed the worms in my gardens and orchard to help my plants grow better.

The freezer is not an option just due to house size. We have two full size refrigerators with freezers and two stand alone freezers that stay full just to feed the hoard that lives here along with the countless teenage friends that come along.

I'm not really worried about getting worm tea and all, for me that will just be a great side effect. I really need to be able to get my compost broken down faster. What we have right now is just from cleaning up the 1/3 acre the house sits on. We just purchased another 70 acres that we now need to clean up and dispose of all the stuff quickly so that we can purchase livestock next year. Since I have issues letting anything that might be useful go, I figure making it into compost for the home garden and the new garden next year would be a good idea.

 

[Kikiriki]

Wow, do you have a lot of compost! I can go days days without having suitable waste for the worms. If you grow anything the castings are going to be a benefit, even it you live someplace dry: castings improve the water retention of soil, and the nutrients help make plants strong enough to handle drought better than plants without castings ammending the soil. Castings are not good for cactus in pots, though...they would only get infrequent watering with tea. And with that much compost, you will have a lot of castings!

My concern, from what you said, is that you have so much vegetable matter that you run the risk of generating the heating of composting: you probably do need the added chore of having to check the worm containers frequently for this. Worms are expensive: compare the cost between a pound of beef and a pond of worms $7 for a good steak, $4 for hamburger, $25 for african nightcrawlers. You do not want that investment being cooked to death!

Also, with the high heat you have, as well as the dry climate, you will also need to take steps to insulate the worm area. And you will not want that moisture just evaporating off. Ideally, you want to be able to control it or even recycle it, or use it for plants.

For these reasons, it seems you would have to use multiple containers, or would do well with an inground trench with lids over it. surround it on all sides with insulation boards inside whatever wood you can get cheaply covered completely with hardware cloth (welded wire with 1/4 inch open squares, to keep rodents out. The trench style does make it harder to harvest the castings because you have to dig it out from low. But the foam really helps to moderate the temps and if you go down into the ground, so will the earth. You could also do it windrow style. You are going to want to have enough room to allow the worms to move away from a hot area, and to be able to spread the veggies out. Would your teens be able to build you a box? Instead of buying foam boards, you could collect foam peanuts to sandwich between the wood and the hardware cloth. People here give them away by the bagful! No one wants to keep them or throw them in the trash...

The african nightcrawler is the one in the picture I posted. They do handle heat well, and they also deal with cold as long as they can move to places where they have a comfortable temperature. They burrow down into the bottom layers deeper than red wigglers. However, you can have both in the same area..it is not like they will go to war! I would get equal amounts, just to cut your costs for buying worms as the red wigglers sell for less per pound. The RW will also burrow down, just not quite as deepely as the african night crawlers. Plus, your fisherfolks could experiment with using both types as bait. Young ANs and RW.

With that much waste, you will need to purchase 5 pounds just to handle the daily waste. To work on the existing compost you could go three pounds of each type. They will multiply, of course. You want to get bed run with mixed ages. Growing worms are going to be more active and eat more: think teenager! It is less expensive, too.

Once you get your compost under control, you can let them handle animal waste as long as you do not let them have the waste from after worming. Chicken manure just killed some of my worms and I spent yesterday handpicking the live ones out before they, too, died. It was old manure, but once inside the bin, it stunk of ammonia as it got wet. I think with some it stripped their skin of the protective mucus, and I think others overate and poisoned themselves: Their front half was really swollen while the back half was thin.

If you want to use it, i would make a slurry, drain it, and rewet it, until it no longer smells of ammonia, then mix a small amount with leaves/or other dry matter and let it stand for a week or more. I just won't use chicken manure at all again...

Later, if you have a mixed animal waste manure pile, do add worms: dig a hole at the edge and put a handful of worms into the ground. They will regulate themselves...

For feeding to chickens, I did the math assuming the chickens would eat an average of 12% protein from inexpensive grain plus free range forage.
To make up the difference from that 12% to the 16% minimum protein required by laying hens, each hen will need 80 live worms per day. This is because the worms are so high in moisture, even though the solids of their bodies are mostly protein (87%). You can do this if you have a large stock of worms since they do reproduce very rapidly after the first year. All those cocoons start hatching...

If you have any questions, just ask! I love talking about worms!