WORMS HELP!!!!!

[threehorses]

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oh your posts are just fine. I'm glad to hear that your boy showed appetite today. We completely understand. So Gofer is his name, yes?

Good. I'm glad to hear his breathing is doing better - that's awesome. And doing the nose is fine to start. It's a bit unnerving to do, but it does clear up his inner sinuses so if you get a chance to. Hopefully you won't even need to! And yes - that stuff is strong. Sometimes when I have a cold I consider stealing my birds' VetRx. (Instead I'm going to have a friend make some for me with essential oils... if I can bribe her.)

I'm glad to hear of the improvement. Just try to keep him eating and drinking the good stuff. Maybe his improved health and nutrition will help him get over whatever got to him in his weak time.

And how is his movement - you said he maybe couldn't walk well. Is he still having problems with that? Did his inflammation on his back ever go down?

Crossing fingers for his quick return to normalcy. He sounds like a loved and lucky roo.

 

[natalie1136]

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What is the situation with your chicken, exactly? Maybe we can help. What symptoms are you seeing, what makes you think it's worms, etc?

By the way, you'll rarely ever see them pass worms as it's the worm's "job" to stay inside the chicken (where they can live) and expell their infective eggs. Also some worms are larval and are in places other than the digestive tract, so you sure won't see them there.

The only really effective way to "see" if your birds haven't worms, or rather haven't much of an infestation at all, is by doing a "fecal egg count". Feces are examined under a microscope by a qualified vet tech for eggs shed. That is a better indication of who's shedding them.

Now, if you see a worm in the droppings, you know that there's a problem. (Unless you've just used a wormer - then you know your wormer is really outdoing itself on doing its job.) In those cases, I always always always use Wazine first.

In fact, I only use wazine if:
- The bird is under four months old (then I only use Wazine)
- The bird is thin and/or has diarrhea
- The bird hasn't been wormed with in over 6 months
- The bird has an unknown worming history
- The bird or flock has shed a worm

Wazine only paralyzes and expels adult worms, not larvae. It's the most conservative approach as it's least likely to cause a heavily infested bird to go into shock or clog. That's why I use it in the above cases. But since it only paralyzes adults, its design is to be repeated as it leaves larva. So instead of repeating with Wazine, I repeat with a more broad spectrum wormer that kills (not just paralyzes) both adults and larva. Those would be ivermectin (pour-on for cattle 5%), eprinomectin pour-on, fenbendazole (Wormazole is one form - there are many), Valbazen, or levamisole. I tend towards fenben and ivermectin (generic). That way I do my best to stop the cycle. Then I worm twice annually with the broad-spectrum.

I also do sometimes use more natural products inbetween in hopes of reducing numbers. These products do not directly kill or paralyze worms, nor do they treat an infestation, but they can possibly either indirectly kill parasites in the digestive tract (not elsewhere) or possibly repel them. Maybe. It's worth a shot to me.

DE food grade only in the feed less than 2% of total food weight, not bulk.
Cayenne sprinkled on the feed daily.
VermX, a self-proclaimed worm repeller used 3 consecutive days a month. (they won't email me back exactly what worms their product expels, and their literature never claims to, but it could be very handy stuff if you know what it's forte' is)

There's some info for you. If you reply, I hope we can help you with your boy.

How do you give the ivermecton. Do you just put it in the water. How much? Thanks Natalie

 

[Chickenz1]

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oh your posts are just fine. I'm glad to hear that your boy showed appetite today. We completely understand. So Gofer is his name, yes?

Good. I'm glad to hear his breathing is doing better - that's awesome. And doing the nose is fine to start. It's a bit unnerving to do, but it does clear up his inner sinuses so if you get a chance to. Hopefully you won't even need to! And yes - that stuff is strong. Sometimes when I have a cold I consider stealing my birds' VetRx. (Instead I'm going to have a friend make some for me with essential oils... if I can bribe her.)

I'm glad to hear of the improvement. Just try to keep him eating and drinking the good stuff. Maybe his improved health and nutrition will help him get over whatever got to him in his weak time.

And how is his movement - you said he maybe couldn't walk well. Is he still having problems with that? Did his inflammation on his back ever go down?

Crossing fingers for his quick return to normalcy. He sounds like a loved and lucky roo.

Sad to say, Gofer's movement is nil for the last 2 days..He just lays there, other than to move his head to rub it on his shoulder or tweek the feathers he can reach around his neck. He hasn't been up on his good leg for over 2 weeks..He is too weak.. He was moving himself around using his wings..He did not have far to move to get where he wanted to be, but last night he did not even turn himself around and point himself at his bucket..He seems worn out from the fast panting through his mouth.. and not eating enough, in my opinion, though he has pottied at least 3 times since yesterday evening..wet enough too..
I have been posting back and forth with chookschick too, and she describes some similar things in her sick chickens that I see in mine, with the pale comb, etc..Stress induced..and you know this baby has been stressed..
Gotta go get my dogs fed..and Gofer if he will eat..I'll keep you posted on him...Thanks again for your input..Gofer needs all the help he can get...

 

[threehorses]

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Well bless his big heart. Heat (and his respiratory issue) really jsut drain a bird. Heat alone would stress, but hopefully this will get him going a bit. I guess the poops were a good thing, yes?

And don't worry - we all have Gofer's back now, and yours.

 

[Chickenz1]

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Well bless his big heart. Heat (and his respiratory issue) really jsut drain a bird. Heat alone would stress, but hopefully this will get him going a bit. I guess the poops were a good thing, yes?

And don't worry - we all have Gofer's back now, and yours.

I appreciate you guys.. Takes the internet to find like minds, that's for sure..
That little toot surprised me tonight..I have him in the house, and at his supper time, I took him out and set him on towels and paper towels on the carpet..Set his food and water before him..He picked up one grape piece, and dropped it.. I persuaded him to take in a little water diluted yogurt, wondering if it can do any good with anitbiotics currently going in the same place..But figured anything he takes is a good thing..He would'nt eat grains, crumbles, bread, watermelon..However, I laid there on the floor with him and watched him go from panting fast to breathing slower and through his nose as I more or less crooned to him like a hen, I guess.. baby talking him.. Still all he'd do was act like he was going to sleep, but then that eye pointing at me would open up and look around.. I finally decided to put him back on his pillow in the box, and just as I got him settled and got his water and food back in with him..he went to town picking on the grains, ceumbles and grit I had laid on the pillow earlier.. So after being in the house since about1 PM, it took him ONLY til after 8PM to calm down enough to eat something...

And yes, the poops were a good thing..Showed me he had taken in enough food to have something to poop..
Is there any reason that you know of not to use his vitamin water to mix his antibiotic into?

 

[threehorses]

Ohhh that's some good news!!! See, he has a champion's heart!

Yes you don't want to mix the vitamins into the antibiotics because of how the chemicals and minerals work together. So just keep his antibiotic water just that - water. See if maybe you could put a couple of vitamin drops into some egg yolk for him. Like 2 drops into one yolk. Do you think he'd eat that?

I just have to say that I got tears in my eyes when you talked about talking quietly to him. Thank you so much for being so very good to that bird. From a less mushy standpoint, I'm absolutely convinced having lived with birds for years - well decades - that if they feel comforted, they eat and heal better. I'm certain of it. I think that your caring was the best medicine he received today.

/lots of hugs!!

 

[Chickenz1]

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Breakthrough!!! Think "Oil Gland".. I went to bed praying and thinking about that poor dry face skin..I woke up about 5 AM and thought HE CAN"T GET TO HIS OIL GLAND...
Got him out of his box, set him on the floor with his water and food..He started to pant a little..I started hunting through his feathers til I found his gland.. Set him up in my lap, touched the gland and started putting his own oil around his face and head..That rooster closed his eyes, stopped panting altogether, and LUXURIATED all over himself..I put him back down, he started eating..He'd already drank several times..I put him back on his pillow with the food and water and he promptly went to sleep, breathing through his nose and looking more peaceful than I have seen him in weeks..Glory Glory THAT is why his poor little face was so dry and flakey..He's not been able to groom properly since the back injury!
As long as he will eat his grains and crumbles and fruit and bread, I'm not going to try to get him to eat any more egg..He really seems to have a thing about not wanting it to touch his "lips"..
Thank you for the info about the vitamins and antibiotic..I'll get that straightened out..

 

[threehorses]

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Well now that makes a lot of sense doesn't it?? Oh my goodness! I bet that felt good. Now I have to wonder - the back injury - it wasn't his preening gland, was it? The swelling? Sometimes those things get backed up and will swell. Just curious.

Glory, indeed - and I do know what you mean.

How's he doing then today? I'll be looking for an update if you have one.

 

[Chickenz1]

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Well now that makes a lot of sense doesn't it?? Oh my goodness! I bet that felt good. Now I have to wonder - the back injury - it wasn't his preening gland, was it? The swelling? Sometimes those things get backed up and will swell. Just curious.

Glory, indeed - and I do know what you mean.

How's he doing then today? I'll be looking for an update if you have one.

No..his gland was fine...but I have terrible news..He's gone..
Earlier, he seemed a bit too warm, so I turned on the ceiling fan in the room to keep the air moving..That was a mistake..When I went in awhile ago to check on him, his nose had stuffed up again and he was making that noise in his throat again..I turned the fan off, then I got him out and on the floor, tried to offer a little water cause I knew his mouth was dry..He didn't want it, understandably..I got the VetRx and put some around his nose, then tried to get a little in his mouth, but he shook his head away from that.. Then he pooed a little, and I picked him up to clean him before it got all over him, and tilted his backend up a little as I have done many times..Put him back down, and his tail went up a few times, then his head went up with a wild look in his eye, and I knew the sinuses had drained down his throat and stopped his air flow, which scared him into a heart attack..He shook himself twice, reared up flapping wings and threw himself over backward, unconscious, then gone.
I have a nose syringe and should have used it soon as I heard the noises..I used it the other day, though it didn't really do any good..His nose never did get runny where I could see it..
He may have had pneumonia all along, because even when breathing through his nose easily, he was still breathing a bit faster than he should have..I attributed it to the stress, which it could have been..I never heard any sounds from listening to his back..
Whatever..he's free now.. and thankfully the last part did not last long..If I was a different person, I might have ended things for him at the beginning and saved him all this time of being messed up..but I can't do that..If they keep wanting to eat, I figure they are not ready to go.. I'll never use a fan in an air conditioned room with a sick chicken again.

 

[threehorses]

I'm so very sorry to hear that he gave up, but you did so much for him. Please don't be hard on yourself. And you gave him comfort, so important. Bless you for that. He was at peace yesterday and he was comfortable. That's more than most chickens get, and definitely what he deserved.

Please just remember that hindsight is always 20/20. It's easy to look back and know what to do, but it's hard to see forwards - just usually not possible and birds are so good at hiding illness. He tried for you, and you tried for him. Unfortunately it just wasn't meant to be. Again I'm so sorry.