Would like to know more about shipped eggs.good and bad

[OmaBird]

Well maybe my expectations were out of place but I did expect to get birds that met the SOP so you spend time and money on just laying hens well in my case BBQ as I ordered straight run...I didn't expect show birds but I want a good farm flock of heritage breeds....Years ago when I ordered birds they did meet the SOP a lot has changed in 20 years and my kids showed them in 4-H and the local shows and did pretty good-with the birds I received this time it would take years to breed them to standard if ever.

Ten years ago when the bandwagon to save turkeys started, I got my first turkeys from Strongberg. I read all the standards and thought I was sent the wrong birds. The color of the feet and little things I new where not right. I joined all the turkey groups and associations and talked to alot of the so called experts of the time. I was told from the experts that was just they way it was. They had to cross the birds to save them. It has not been that long ago that the numbers where very low.

In 1999 allmost every heritage turkey was owned by hatchery's. From the 1999 SPPA Turkey Census Report

1. Cackle Hatchery breeding 20% of the Historical Farm turkeys consisting of Bourbon Reds, Royal Palms, Blacks and Slates

2. Frank Robert Reese, Jr., breeding 4% of the Historical Farm turkeys consisting of Bronze, Bourbon Red, Blacks, Narragansett and Slates. New to the list, BobÕs numbers were over 100 breeders this year.

3. Glenn Drowns breeding 5% of the Historical Farm turkeys consisting of about 15 different varieties.

4. Inman Hatchery breeding 5% of the Historical Farm turkeys consisting of Bourbon Reds.

5. Privett Hatchery breeding 13% of the Historical Farm turkeys consisting of Bourbon Reds and Royal Palms.

6. Shanks Hatchery breeding 3% of the Historical Farm turkeys consisting of Bourbon Reds.

7. Wish Poultry breeding 5% of the Historical Farm turkeys consisting of Wishard Bronze turkeys.

From http://www.feathersite.com/Poultry/SPPA/TurkCensusRept99.html​

 

[Lotsapaints]

My Midget Whites that came from Welp are up to standard the size is not very uniform but I also hatched some from longranger so I have enough to start with and I should take pictures the Auburns are beautiful those came from longranger too and I have a MW hen that thinks those poults are hers she tries keeping them herded together so I quess she would be a good one to keep for raising poults.

 

[OmaBird]

Quote:
I believe Welps drop ships there birds from breeders. They do not breed them their self. Sometimes if you look at the box post mark, you can figure out who that breeder was.

 

[Steve_of_sandspoultry]

Quote:
That's a very broad statement. Yes, I know people can selectivly breed and come up with a better bird but, how many people actually do this? I'd be willing to bet most of the eggs sold on ebay are out of hatchery stock or worse.
Can you please explain the difference between a hatchery Midget White and a non hatchery MW? and why can't I take my hatchery turkeys and breed in the qualities that suit me?
After all, don't they all come from the same original flock? and please don't think I'm trying to be arguementative. I really would like to know.
Also, my question to lotsapaints was refering to chicks or poults DOA. I order a lot of cornish-x's and have very few problems.

I know quite a few people that have bred them for many years. Yes there are alot of people who just have them as pets and pen breed them and that's fine and totaly your choice. I know of about 3 or 4 people that sell on Ebay win shows with their turkeys every year. Not the county fair shows but APA shows. In the case of the Midget White they can be bred anyway you want since there is no APA standard for them.

Say I'm breeding my Midgets for meat production I would breed them different than somebody breeding them for egg production. If I was breeding a show bird, conformation would be my goal over any other. So a single breeder can change the "direction" that a flock is going in. If somebody lets them all run together and mix you can loose them all together. The hatcheries drop ship their birds from Texas and Arizona, they buy eggs from breeders en mass, hatch and ship them out. The quality or lack of depends on the person raising the parent flock. That's why you do get some OK birds from a hatchery and some not OK

Steve

 

[OmaBird]

Even if your breeding from show stock does not mean you will get show quality birds. When the numbers of birds are low and hard to find, would you sell your best birds?

Since there is Paint Horse owners here ( I am a paint horse breeder now retired) you probably know that many world champions will never produce. Some stallions that have never shown have been great producers. There is some breeders that just have a eye for putting the right stallion on the right mare. Those same offspring put in different hands do turn out to be that great.

I like the article on inbreeding and line breeding from Porters website. Has everyone read it?

Think how concentrated and narrow the gene pool is after so many years of related matings. It takes ruthless culling and selection to maintain productive animals, but they breed like a "rubber stamp". Closebreeding is the mating of closely related animals - - such as sire to daughter, son to dam, brother to sister. Usually just for a generation or two to intensify some desired trait - - or as many breeders would say "it takes a double shot to lock it in." Continual, repeated use of
close bred animals (from the same mating population or strain) results in inbreeding. Linebreeding is the mating of more distantly related individuals which share a common ancestor (which was highly prized or
very productive) - - such as a grandson mated to granddaughters (cousins) or nephew to aunt, etc. Linebred animals represent individuals within a "family".

Inbreeding is the fastest method in animal breeding to bring to light defects or unwanted characteristics so they may be culled (eliminated). The key to success and avoiding the many problems alluded to in the typical animal breeding texts is simply to not tolerate the use of any breeding stock displaying questionable problems. Most of our strains were developed by those old-time master breeders with inbreeding. That's why they bred so true for them. In addition they had alot of patience as they worked to develop those strains. Many literally spent a lifetime doing so. Our problem is that today everyone wants everything"right now". The person who constantly cares for his stock by doing his own chores daily,makes the matings himself, and observes and mentally makes note of everything he observes has a tremendous advantage over companies where each step in the chain of production is done by a different individual whose own motivation is often simply his pay check.​

 

[Lotsapaints]

OmaBird breeding any good stock takes good stock and lots of culling you only need 2 good birds to continue a strain the difficult part is the culling.....the best part with poultry is breeding is quicker than horses and costs way less too as you don't have to wait 11 months for an egg to hatch....

 

[Steve_of_sandspoultry]

If you are breeding from SQ stock your chances of breeding SQ offspring are much higher don't you think? I think everybody does realize that not every offspring is SQ. There are quite a few breeding methods, most linebreed. Pen breeding is uncontrolled and results in rapid inbreeding. With a closed flock, careful record keeping and multiple breeding lines you can go for many many years and not have any problems from breeding to close.

Steve

 

[ziggywiggy]

Quote:
Which brings us back to the original post. The only way sometimes to get potential show quality is by taking chances with shipped eggs but, you need to know who you're buying from and if you don't know for sure that you are getting quality don't do it.
That's the only reason I have been buying shipped eggs. One good Tom would make it all worth while. Of course, if I buy anymore eggs this year my wife will shoot me.

 

[Lotsapaints]

Steve 30% show winners from horses is hall of fame % and there are lines for different things..... I bred 10% winners from my horses that was wonderful because I sold them young and had no control to what happened I had to hope whoever bought them would show them. I have female lines that I wouldn't part with and from my reading on poultry you can upgrade your stock quicker with a few good hens than with the fanciest Roo so I think Turkeys would be the same....

 

[OmaBird]

With my horses the mares where just as important as the stallion. Some stallions also where just good at producing mare lines. My fondation stock was a Wimpy mare that produced 16 foals. All had show records except her first one. That first one did go on to produce show stock along with many of her female siblings.