Would like to know more about shipped eggs.good and bad

[ziggywiggy]

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With all all the shipped turkey eggs I've tried to hatch, I would be happy either way. But thanks for the info. I've learned a lot today.

 

[OmaBird]

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This year I will be raising all of my turkeys to adult size. From them I will only be keeping the very best. It is to hard for me to tell who will be the best from poults. There is alot of culling every year. I think type is just as important as color. Its to hard to work on both at the same time. Look at what happened to Black and White Paint Horses when only color was the goal.

 

[Lotsapaints]

When breeding "type" first color is the icing....really though with birds color is the difference......Don't Bronze and slate have the same type (just using this as example) Bourbons seem a little smaller.. the biggest problem is that all these birds haven't been bred for type/production in years and were let to go almost extinct so we have a small gene pool to work with. I want "production" lots of meat along with the ability to naturally mate and rear their off spring I really think it's good that there are many more people raising them now even if the type isn't perfect widens out the gene pool and I don't want to be dependent on "big ag" to do the right thing. (Wimpy was intensely inbred/line bred too King Ranch was very into line breeding of all kinds of stock they loved the color RED)

 

[OmaBird]

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I only breed standard turkeys. They do all have the same type. I even like my palms to be breed for eating, even if I don't eat them. I breed for me not show. I don't see us losing any colors now that the genetics are better understood. We can add the color at any time. Standard breed turkeys can all run together without losing anything. You still cull the same as if you have them in small pens.

My Wimpy mare is a granddaughter to Wimpy and daughter of Bill Cody. She is a QH and is bay. I was told she would never produce a colored foal because King Ranch breed for dark feet. She had stripe feet and tiny cornet bands. She even had a crop out for me one year. One reason I think the mare line was good is they where all milk cows. I found taking the fondation lines and crossing them on modern horses gave me great results. At one point I think you have to outcross. That hybid vigor came out in her foals.

 

[Steve_of_sandspoultry]

Which brings us back to the original post. The only way sometimes to get potential show quality is by taking chances with shipped eggs but, you need to know who you're buying from and if you don't know for sure that you are getting quality don't do it.
That's the only reason I have been buying shipped eggs. One good Tom would make it all worth while. Of course, if I buy anymore eggs this year my wife will shoot me.

Exactly on knowing who you are buying from. The more questions you ask the more you learn. Ask for pics, read what people post - you can tell real quick the people that are speaking from experience and the ones that cut and paste from other sites and only know what they read. There are quite a few other places besides here and Ebay, join the ALBC or the SPPA. Get Poultry Press and see who is winning the shows and talk to them. Keep searching and you will find what you are looking fo

Lotsapaints,
Don't be mislead by what you read about the "gene pool". people from all over the country have kept and saved heritage turkeys. The results you see from a cut and paste does not reflect the actual numbers. Since I am a member of the ALBC and the SPPA I know you have to be a member to be counted. There are who knows how many out there that haven't been counted. Is my flock of BR's here in NC (for example) the same genetic make up as a flock from the mid west, or far west. I seriously doubt it. They started as regional varieties and branched out from there. The Narri was developed in New England but made its way all over with the settlers.

If you want production I can tell you just what you can do to that goal.

1) only set the largest eggs - that will give you a bigger overall bird in time
2) Weigh each poult at a month then weekly after - number each bird and keep records. You will see exactly which is gaining weight faster. (they are your new breeders)

from there linebreed them and do the same with the next generation. You will see 2 things, the overall bird size will increase and the weight gain will be faster. If you have good stock to begin with they will maintain the standards. You may have to decide conformation over weight gain in some since you don't want to loose the original bird. But that is a breeding program. Other than very obvious defects there is no way you can decide conformation on poults, with some you have to wait until they molt the first time to see the true color pattern come out. Of course there is more to than that but we are just getting started....pull up a chair and get comfy it may take awhile.

Steve​

 

[OmaBird]

I found even when I ask the breeders for pictures they will not show anything except the stagged pictures they have on a web page. Beware of those that will not take a picture to show anything that you ask for. Some show 5 birds at the most. Usually young birds in perfect feather and not working breeders. We all know what they look like. Who knows if the eggs you get even came from those 5 perfect birds. Are those 5 birds siblings? They do not tell you anything about who they got there birds from in case you want different bloodlines than ones you already have. The tell you nothing about there breeding program at all. It would be nice to know how many breeding pens of each breed they have. Is each egg from related stock.

Sometimes I think it is best to go to a show and leave your phone number on a cage if you see a bird you like. I have bought alot of birds this way. No need to hatch anything or wonder what it will be like when it grows up.

I found some birds are big when young (fast growers) and fizzle out. Some are small at first and grow quite big. Some are steady all through their growth. This is where records of each bird helps. All my birds have wing bands. I keep notes on everything I am working on.

 

[Steve_of_sandspoultry]

Which breeders do you speak of or just breeder websites in general?

Steve

 

[Lotsapaints]

Thanks Steve and OmaBird. Steve I found a form for Buckeyes @ALBC for weights and other stuff and the light went on to keep records for that. I've been banding at hatch and marking the ones I like for later reference but my oldest ones are only 8 weeks. Thanks for the help I am really enjoying everybody's thoughts and pictures this is a great place!

 

[Steve_of_sandspoultry]

Glad to be able to help, like I said there is much more to a breeding program so just ask away.

Steve

 

[OmaBird]

1) only set the largest eggs - that will give you a bigger overall bird in time

This does not work for me at all. First year layers will always lay a smaller egg. Older birds regardless of there size or genetics will always lay the biggest eggs. Even chickens have been bred for larger egg size without getting bigger body size.

These two turkeys were hatched the same day out of different size eggs. Today they are the same size because the genetics makes the size not the egg.