Wounds not closing & diarrhea — 5+ weeks

[MixedFlock23]

Hen was attacked June 8th (39 days ago). I’m concerned her wounds are not healing properly after browsing other wound stories on this site. (Seems by now wounds should have new skin covering them & feathers growing.) She’s also had diarrhea for weeks. She is growing new feathers where missing, but not much new skin, closing the wounds.

Here’s what we’ve done: We washed the wound on her back that evening, but didn’t discover the wound under her leg until the following day. Since then we have rinsed her wounds daily (twice daily most days). At first I used soap & water (day 1 & 2) and then a wound wash saline spray. We put BluKote and then triple antibiotic ointment on the wounds after each rinsing. We started her on antibiotics (Bactrim) also. About four or five days later we noticed a smell from the wounds and added a second antibiotic (Amoxicillin). We finished the full courses of meds.

We used contact saline solution (when the Wound Wash spray ran out), BlueKote, & antibiotic ointment for about three weeks. Then I switched to Vetericyn for spraying & triple antibiotic ointment plus Hen Healer ointment (30% lanolin) as a fly barrier/to keep it moist. No more BluKote but her exposed muscle & tissues and surrounding feathers are still dyed bluish purple making it harder to see the wounds.

She was kept in the house for the first three weeks & is now in a small coop & run with her friend Twilight the Silkie (I kept them together since day 1 so Silver would be encouraged to eat & heal up & so reintroducing a single hen wouldn’t be an issue). No issue with flies.

Silver has lost weight (weighs 3 lbs now-I think she weighed 4 last fall) and has had diarrhea every poo except one normal one. I have fed her by hand (mash made of hen crumble & water shaped into balls & put into her mouth until her crop was mostly full) trying to get her to eat more. On her own she only eats about 1/3 of her normal, I’d guess based on her crop size.
I’ve given Rooster Booster vitamins/minerals/probiotics, plain yogurt, and human probiotics opened & sprinkled on mash. I’ve tried egg and also mixed it in crumble and hand fed that as a bite-size pieces. She doesn’t eat egg or treats after tasting them though. So I’ve only tried a few times. She always has crumble/pellets and water. She prefers laying pellets over all flock crumble. She’s had plain water the last week or two. (No added vitamins)

The wound doesn’t seem to be closing & the diarrhea remains though has more solids now. Early on it was jet blasts of clear water with little or no poo.

No smell from her wounds since mid June and the second antibiotic was added. Oh and we washed wounds with Hibiclens for a few days when it smelled. The infection smell went away and hasn’t returned.

Last month the wounds would leak saline after rinsing. Now with less spray (Vetericyn), they don’t drip. I thought perhaps the saline inside her caused diarrhea, or the antibiotics caused it, but now no more saline and we are weeks out and still it remains.

Thoughts?

Silver is still “talking” and walking (with a slight limp) and acting okay. She eats & drinks, but in smaller amounts. Our vet doesn’t really treat chickens, but did get me a catheter and syringe for tube feeding, which I did the last two nights, but I’m not sure if it’s necessary. I don’t plan on continuing tube feeding unless she loses more weight/stops eating/starts pooping water again.

She did lay two eggs in the days after the attack. (The eggs already forming before the injury.) The entire flock was dewormed in May/June with safeguard doses ten days apart before this. No mites or lice or any other symptoms of parasites or disease or infection.

Last night I removed darkened tissue from around the wounds, revealing pink edges. Hopefully this helps her wound close.

What else can I do for Silver? I need help with the wounds & curing the diarrhea. Thank you so much.

Day 6:

Diarrhea pics (I don’t have any photos of the water only kind & haven’t seen any like it in over a week):

Before & after removing darkened edges:
Thursday & today pics

Leg puncture wound:
(She’s standing in the first pic and lying on her side in my lap in the second—so the wound is flipped in the second pic)

Photos of ointment in/on/around wounds & products used currently/the last couple of weeks:

 

[nuthatched]

The fact that the edges are turning pink is a good sign, but it's odd that wounds haven't closed yet. It might be that shes healing from the inside out. How often have you been rinsing/applying ointments? It migh be that it wasn't allowed to scab for healing but I'm not sure.

 

[MixedFlock23]

The fact that the edges are turning pink is a good sign, but it's odd that wounds haven't closed yet. It might be that shes healing from the inside out. How often have you been rinsing/applying ointments? It migh be that it wasn't allowed to scab for healing but I'm not sure.

I try for morning and evening rinsing, but a few days I’ve only managed once a day rinsing. By rinsing, I mean squirting saline (first few weeks) now Vetericyn over the entire wound, letting it sit for a few minutes, then smearing triple antibiotic ointment (& now with hen healer too) over it. I understood (from reading on byc) that chicken wounds should remain moist with ointment for the best healing, so I’ve been keeping it lathered with ointment(s).

The edges of the wound have thickened a bit but still look healthy to me.

The diarrhea concerns me as much as the wound not closing.

 

[MixedFlock23]

Oh boy. I wonder what I should do now.
Just googled…

 

[MysteryChicken]

I try for morning and evening rinsing, but a few days I’ve only managed once a day rinsing. By rinsing, I mean squirting saline (first few weeks) now Vetericyn over the entire wound, letting it sit for a few minutes, then smearing triple antibiotic ointment (& now with hen healer too) over it. I understood (from reading on byc) that chicken wounds should remain moist with ointment for the best healing, so I’ve been keeping it lathered with ointment(s).

The edges of the wound have thickened a bit but still look healthy to me.

The diarrhea concerns me as much as the wound not closing.

It should also be allowed to dry out, before the next application. Air Healing requires a good crust to be able to form over the wound, this crust is a sign of it healing properly. The crust is usually a scab with a yellow tone. The ointment can be applied directly to the crust, & will help it fall off after the wound is completely healed.

I don't have an example picture.

 

[MixedFlock23]

It should also be allowed to dry out, before the next application. Air Healing requires a good crust to be able to form over the wound, this crust is a sign of it healing properly. The crust is usually a scab with a yellow tone. The ointment can be applied directly to the crust, & will help it fall off after the wound is completely healed.

I don't have an example picture.

Hmm. Will it still make a scab this far out? Even immediately after the attack it wasn’t bleeding/didn’t clot. The couple of days I missed rinsing & applying ointment a second time, the tissue (looks like muscle) dried and looked a bit like jerky (though no where near as dry or hard!). It has only been purple due to the BluKote so there’s no telling what color(s) it really is. I will drop back to once daily spray & ointment & see how it goes.

Did you see the screenshot I posted above regarding wound healing?

 

[MixedFlock23]

@Eggcessive @azygous @Wyorp Rock @aart @Mrs. K Thank you so much in advance! You’ve been helpful to me in the past; I hope it’s okay to tag you.
Do you have ideas on what has happened & what my next steps should be?
I think Silver’s wound edges have rolled under and thus her body thinks it is healed since skin met skin. I haven’t heard the term epibole before & I’m not familiar with full-thickness wound healing, but I’m googling it now.
(More info in my prior posts on this thread.)
Ahhh! I still need to cure her diarrhea too.
Day 39:

 

[Mrs. K]

Thank you for asking for advice. And I am glad I have been of some assistance in the past. But this is out of my experience. It is a long time to be an open injury. The skin is the first line of defense, and that is a pretty much gapping hole.

You have put a lot of effort into this, I will offer my husbands advice, 'If what you are doing isn't working, try a different button.' I think I have read that triple antibiotic can interfere with wound healing in the long run on human skin, but I wonder if this is not what is happening.
https://www.bywoundcare.com/blog/why-isnt-my-wound-healing-3-antibiotics


So I would stop the triple antibiotic, and even the blue note. I would just wash it, with water, maybe once a day.

So things will either get better, or you may have to give her the coup de grace. It is going to be quite hard after trying so hard.

I think I would not worry about the diarrhea, I think I would want her outside as much as possible.

But I can see why you are worried.

Mrs K

 

[azygous]

Blue kote must never, ever be used on wounds larger than a small scratch. Reasons are many, but it disguises the state of the wound and dries it out which are counter productive.

Another reason for the rolled edge of the wound is granulation, a term for tissue building from the outer edge of the wound toward the center, the center closing last.

Frankly, I cannot make out the state of the wound for all the junk on the wound, mostly the blue color. I'm going to suggest you concentrate on cleansing the wound thoroughly each day with saline wash and/or Hibiclens, and debride all pus, all dead skin, everything except new pink skin. A rough wash cloth does a fair job of debriding. Use it and ignore your fears it will hurt her. Death hurts way more, and it's you that will do the hurting.

Keep the wound moist at all times between wound cleansing. A general oral antibiotic is a good idea. Tube feeding should not be done as long as she's eating on her own.

 

[MixedFlock23]

Thank you for asking for advice. And I am glad I have been of some assistance in the past. But this is out of my experience. It is a long time to be an open injury. The skin is the first line of defense, and that is a pretty much gapping hole.

You have put a lot of effort into this, I will offer my husbands advice, 'If what you are doing isn't working, try a different button.' I think I have read that triple antibiotic can interfere with wound healing in the long run on human skin, but I wonder if this is not what is happening.
https://www.bywoundcare.com/blog/why-isnt-my-wound-healing-3-antibiotics


So I would stop the triple antibiotic, and even the blue note. I would just wash it, with water, maybe once a day.

So things will either get better, or you may have to give her the coup de grace. It is going to be quite hard after trying so hard.

I think I would not worry about the diarrhea, I think I would want her outside as much as possible.

But I can see why you are worried.

Mrs K

Thank you. We will try something new tonight. I’m not a medical provider, but I know one willing to look at the wound & assist in wound management. Silver is not giving up on living, so we will try another approach. Silver lives outside with a gentle silkie hen in a coop & run all their own. I bring her inside to clean her wound (& take photos).