Wrath's Marans

[BlueTheBrahma]

I assume you’re right about this meaning Rebel is pure, but because there’s bound to be some genetic element to it, regardless of its relationship with other colours, I wonder if technically a line bred cross could present the head spot. It’s probably something that hasn’t been looked into.

@Pumperkinz @BlueTheBrahma I got curious and found another. This is one of Rebels 7.
I haven't banded all these yellow yet so I got this one banded. This actually tells me Rebel is pure.
View attachment 4146683

 

[BlueTheBrahma]

Here's the 2 Blue Silvers. I banded them blue/orange and blue/green.View attachment 4146689View attachment 4146700

Interesting to see it in Blues also, brilliant.

 

[BlueTheBrahma]

Usually color expression should have some links back to something or another. IE spotting in some can be a sign of "impurity" but that is because it shows a color gene for white birds and obviously you don't want a splash to show up in your pure white birds etc.

Love to know more about it though and thanks!

I think (from what I have predicted based on hearing about it) it’s more that there exists a gene or collection of genes responsible for this pattern in chicks, which doesn’t have much effect on adults.
It’s considered a sign of purity because these genes only exist in original French marans, so it shows they actually descend from them (rather than birds which have been bred independently but coincidentally followed the marans standard).
mine have never had it, so I think it’s lost in some lines and may or may not ever appear, regardless of heritage, but if it’s there, it’s a good sign.

 

[wrathsfarm]

I assume you’re right about this meaning Rebel is pure, but because there’s bound to be some genetic element to it, regardless of its relationship with other colours, I wonder if technically a line bred cross could present the head spot. It’s probably something that hasn’t been looked into.

Way to rain on my parade...

I'll keep watching them of course and we'll see what develops. This willy nilly hatch I keep talking about was I spent a month at my daughter's house doing her kitchen and laundry room. Joannie went broody and eggs from the mixed flock got layed with the Marans eggs she was sitting on which weren't tagged or separated by hens as I do now. So it was a free for all hatch. Momma, Rebel, Black and Prince were the outcome. With Black we know she's an odd one more than likely a Midnight majesty from BR, and Momma is pure BCM.

 

[Pumperkinz]

Yeah I'm just wondering if it's similar to the cuckoo dots where you can tell and it's a sex linked thing. (Could not be as well).

Be interesting to be able to have a sex linked BCM. I'll try and do some digging on the spotting stuff but I agree with the chick thing as it has 0 impact on adult coloring from the looks of it. Just a really wonky little thing. I'll spend some time looking around to it but its really interesting the blues get it too.

It's also interesting it's not color dependent though none of the splashes I've seen carry it. So maybe it's something w/ Blue/Black.

 

[BlueTheBrahma]

Yeah I'm just wondering if it's similar to the cuckoo dots where you can tell and it's a sex linked thing. (Could not be as well).

Be interesting to be able to have a sex linked BCM. I'll try and do some digging on the spotting stuff but I agree with the chick thing as it has 0 impact on adult coloring from the looks of it. Just a really wonky little thing. I'll spend some time looking around to it but its really interesting the blues get it too.

It's also interesting it's not color dependent though none of the splashes I've seen carry it. So maybe it's something w/ Blue/Black.

Pretty sure they aren’t sex linked. At least not sex specific, to be honest I haven’t though much about the patterns of Wrath getting them, I guess I could do some thinking, but I’d need to wait to see the sex of the young ones.

Not related to barring, but now you’ve said that, I’d be interested in seeing what would happen if the copper head spot was present in golden or silver cuckoos ( I don’t think it occurs in blacks so not in dark cuckoos) maybe they’d get both, or maybe one hides the other. That might be up to me when the golden cuckoo project finally progresses.

 

[BlueTheBrahma]

Way to rain on my parade...

I'll keep watching them of course and we'll see what develops. This willy nilly hatch I keep talking about was I spent a month at my daughter's house doing her kitchen and laundry room. Joannie went broody and eggs from the mixed flock got layed with the Marans eggs she was sitting on which weren't tagged or separated by hens as I do now. So it was a free for all hatch. Momma, Rebel, Black and Prince were the outcome. With Black we know she's an odd one more than likely a Midnight majesty from BR, and Momma is pure BCM.

Sorry
It certainly makes it more likely, put it that way. My only thinking is, since Kong clearly has genes for it, any cross bred offspring could carry it, for it to pop up again when bred back to him. But it could be more complex than that, and be a real indicator of (near) 100% purity.

Do you know if Kong had the headspot?

 

[Pumperkinz]

Pretty sure they aren’t sex linked. At least not sex specific, to be honest I haven’t though much about the patterns of Wrath getting them, I guess I could do some thinking, but I’d need to wait to see the sex of the young ones.

Not related to barring, but now you’ve said that, I’d be interested in seeing what would happen if the copper head spot was present in golden or silver cuckoos ( I don’t think it occurs in blacks so not in dark cuckoos) maybe they’d get both, or maybe one hides the other. That might be up to me when the golden cuckoo project finally progresses.

Yeah it sparked my interest. The only reason why I know so much about this is because I did a huge deep dive on Sebastopol geese and they similarly have close genetics just different expressions for recessive/dominant genes. (Grey/Buff/Blue/Lavender) and there is like a multitude of splash/saddlebacks etc so things can get really crazy.

Also reading back on the BCM posts from years prior there is so much that goes into stuff. OMG I could spend a whole year learning and feel like I keep seeing new stuff.

 

[wrathsfarm]

Sorry
It certainly makes it more likely, put it that way. My only thinking is, since Kong clearly has genes for it, any cross bred offspring could carry it, for it to pop up again when bred back to him. But it could be more complex than that, and be a real indicator of (near) 100% purity.

Do you know if Kong had the headspot?

No I never saw it. It's something that when you see it it's permanently in your brain and stands out right at hatch so when you see it it's a curiosity thing until you know the meaning. So I would have definitely mentioned it somewhere along the way once I knew what it was.
I guess the most confusing part for me is it's copper so I automatically associated it with the BCM color genes and then when I spotted the 2 Blue Silvers it went sideways confusing me more. Still don't grasp it yet, but their so neat to see I have to keep them to watch feather out.

 

[BlueTheBrahma]

No I never saw it. It's something that when you see it it's permanently in your brain and stands out right at hatch so when you see it it's a curiosity thing until you know the meaning. So I would have definitely mentioned it somewhere along the way once I knew what it was.
I guess the most confusing part for me is it's copper so I automatically associated it with the BCM color genes and then when I spotted the 2 Blue Silvers it went sideways confusing me more. Still don't grasp it yet, but their so neat to see I have to keep them to watch feather out.

Frankly as long as it’s cropping up in your F1/F2 BCMs and F0 BSMs it’s a really good start. You don’t even really need to understand it (though I’m sure we will keep digging), just let it spread across your flock as a telltale sign of good marans.

I imagine one day I’ll randomly find one (at least I hope so), and I’ll try and test it to determine the genes behind it. But as you know, there’s a few obstacles in the way there.