YELLOW URATES - Cause for concern? *edit* Undigested food, lethargic.

[shandiane78]

Well, I did my best to palpate all around the vent area. Didn't feel anything that seemed hard like an egg. Of course, I don't know what I'm doing there...

While on my lap, she pooped more undigested grass/food and mustard colored urates. What could this be?!

 

[threehorses]

The urates - are they actually yellow if you carefully divide them in two? The middle's yellow, too? Or is the poop coating the urates yellow?

Is she still on grass, etc? did she ever have grit provided, and not just whatever gravel is in the environment - actual granite grit? How long ago did she eat these other foods if she hasn't eaten them in a while?

I would definitely do a gentle flush to cleanse all that stuff out of her. A few drops of molasses, a teaspoon of applesauce, a teaspoon of yogurt, some honey if you have it, and crumbles. That will help flush the 'stuff' out of her system, the applesauce will cleanse and then make good bacteria happy in her gut, the yogurt will replace good bacteria in the 'clean slate' that the flush leaves, and they just like the honey. The crumbles will take up the extra moisture. I have an under-the-weather hen that I'm watching eat her very same mash right now - it's very effective in cases where you're not quite sure what's going on.

I'd keep her on the yogurt or a probiotic until this is all done. What about her crop? Is it backed up?

This could be several things really. Worms (foamy), bacteria, liver issue (yellow in the urine/urates, or kidneys).

 

[shandiane78]

Yes, the urates are yellow through and through. (I got a good look at it when she pooped on me

)She still has access to grass, and she eats it, but this evening I did see her chowing down on some food finally, so that was good. I don't have grit specifically, but they have a large yard, and some areas with bare dirt where they scratch around and eat pebbles. When I was "dissecting" her poo with all the undigested grass in it, I found a small pebble in there. She also has oyster shell available.

It's not as if she hasn't been eating, but she hasn't been her usual voracious self. She normally eats like a horse...She just hasn't been herself, and of course there's the strange poo symptom and lack of eggs.

After looking at a chicken diagram, I realize I was palpating her bowel, not the place where eggs come from!

Poor thing...

I will try the mash you suggested, and also offer yogurt. I normally do give her some, but I stopped because I was afraid the cow's milk protein could irritate her gut, or burden the liver or kidneys.

Her crop seems normal. Just not as full as usual.

Thank you so much for helping me through this. I've had chickens for only about month, and already dealt with an upper respiratory infection, and now this (whatever it is). I sure didn't think it would be like this!

 

[threehorses]

OK they definitely need grit, specifically. Granite grit is easily obtained in small bags from TSC, etc. It's beautiful stuff. A lot of people depend on pebbles, but really it's not the sure way to do things. And the undigested grass is telling you that the pebbles in the yard are not enough.

I'd get her some immediately. In the mean time, I'd keep her up away from grass, grains, anything other than crumbles (and try to get her to eat them by wetting some).

For some reason - she's passing things without them grinding up. This is a big problem for the digestive tract. It's just not designed to do that. I think the mash will help at least some. And as far as the yogurt goes, with the living bacteria in it it's ok. The slight amount you give won't hurt. In fact, in the old days milk used to be a staple in poultry diets (as back then it wasn't pasteurized and many people had cows - they used it instead of soy protein that we use now, and used it as a treatment - as probiotics back then as well). They even let birds use that as their drink instead of water. So today a little yogurt is fine.

The crop being NOT as full, to me, is way better than it being overly full. At least it's emptying, so that's good.

As far as your rough start, it'll smooth out. The trick to keeping poultry is to do a few basics and stick with them religiously. Granite grit no matter the environment. Laying mash/pellets for all hens. Oyster shell for all hens always. Starter for starting babies (>8 weeks), grower for all growing babies (8 wks til the pullets combs redden and grow). Nothing in the water but water most of the time. Good bacteria replacements occassionally. Lots of dry bedding, dry sand instead of soil for runs. Sunshine, fresh air. 31 day quarantines or closed flocks. Babies get probiotics and medicated feed until you're a years-long expert at babies. Feel the chickens often so you know their bodies, catch problems before they are obvious. Etc etc.

After the one time applesauce mash, stop the applesauce (as it quickens things through the gut) and do her regular feed and some wetted crumble mash (probiotics, vitamins, honey) to keep her interested in the type of feed she should eat. If you add three drops of polyvisol baby vitamins (without iron) to her mash, it has B vitamins in it to help her appetite and the vitamins should help her basic health as well. When I use it I find it really does help. I use that mix for any bird that looks peaked or weak and has any sort of abnormality at all to their droppings. I do the same without the molasses/applesauce to all other pale looking birds.

 

[shandiane78]

Thanks again, Nathalie! I made up some mash for her, but couldn't get her to eat it. (Though she was eating some tomato I'd put out.) Meanwhile, all the other hens were going crazy for the mash! So I took it and her outside the fence. She still paid it no attention to it, and started wandering away. Finally, I shut her in the coop with the mash, some starter/grower crumbles, oyster shell, and water available. Not sure how long I should leave her in there. Unfortunately, I don't have any kind of cage or hutch to put her in. Hopefully no one needs to lay an egg while she's in there...

I did see her poop again, and again the urates look just like mustard, and there was some bubbly liquid on top.

I will get some grit as soon as I can. I have looked for the poly vi sol, but only found the one with iron. I'll check elsewhere though. The good news is, everyone else's poop looks great. She's the only one having this kind of trouble...

I keep wondering if she could be egg bound, because her underside seems so full and low slung. But that would not have anything to do with the digestive symptoms, would it?

 

[shandiane78]

Well, I let her out of the coop. She didn't touch the mash...

But I know it stresses her out to be away from the flock.

I'm really starting to suspect it's some kind of liver or kidney problem.

 

[threehorses]

Remind me again - has she been wormed within the last six months?

Yes, the abdomen if it feels low and full to you (and it's not just fat) could be an issue with egg laying. I really dislike the urates being that yellow - that really indicates a serious issue. I don't suppose that you have a vet that treats chickens that can do a liver function or basic blood test do you? That would tell you if there was an infection (such as that with internal laying, etc) and if the liver is involved, which is what I immediately think of when I think of yellow urates.

 

[shandiane78]

Nathalie, she has not been wormed to my knowledge. I've only had her about a month. I had thought of worming her, but she may be in a weakened state and I don't know how she'd handle the meds.

My husband is back in town, which means I have my camera back, so here are some pics of Mavis and her poo. Lately the urates have been ranging in color from mustard yellow, to kind of key lime pie green. I can still see some undigested grass in there, though I haven't found poos that are almost entirely made up of grass, which I did see a couple days ago. She's been eating a small amount of crumbles, always in the evening. Other than that, she's been eating a lot of grass, and has a big appetite for soft juicy fruits like tomatoes and plums:

*edit* As far as behavior goes, she's less active than usual, definitely eating less than usual, and has stopped laying completely. From what I've observed, her appetite seems to improve a bit as the day goes on, and also her activity level. I was always offering mash in the morning, and she wouldn't touch it. So yesterday I offered in the evening, and she ate a little. When I've been out taking photos, she's felt well enough to be curious and interested in what I'm doing. She does move around the yard, just not as active as usual and spending more time lying around or sleeping than normal.

 

[shandiane78]

One other observation I forgot to mention...i have not seen her drink ANY water for the past week or so. I keep telling myself, she must be drinking while I'm not looking, but I do observe her a good amount, especially when she eats, and I haven't seen her take a single drink of water! I was thinking it's impossible that she isn't drinking because she'd probably be dead by now! But, what if she's staying hydrated by eating so much grass? That would also explain why the only treats I can get her to eat are tomatoes and plums. She doesn't want seeds, bananas, grains, bread, etc. Only soft juicy fruits...

Maybe I'm crazy, but if she really isn't drinking water, could that explain the colored urates? Similar to when people are really dehydrated and the urine gets very dark?

 

[shandiane78]

Well, this is a welcome surprise. Mavis seems to be doing much better today! I hope it's not just a fluke...

Yesterday I held her on my lap and stuck her beak into some water. It took her a bit to get started, but then she drank and drank. I also got on a glove with some vaseline and tried feeling around in her vent. I didn't feel anything, but when I took my fingers out, some yellow fluid came out. I assumed it was poo, and maybe it was? I don't know. I also weighed her, and to my shock, she does not seem to have lost weight. (Though my scale only measures to the half pound.)

But now today she is eating great and much more active. I *think* but am not sure, that she may have even laid an egg late this morning. I think it may have been hers, because it was a double yolker (which she has laid before) and much bigger than what my younger pullets lay. Also, one of the yolks had blood in it...Here's the egg:

I have no way of knowing for sure if it is hers, and I also don't know what to think about the poo issues. I just hope she continues to improve!