Your Antibiotic of Choice

Yes, enrofloxacin is the generic "name" of the medicine, Baytril is a brand name... like "Augmentin" is a brand name for amoxicillin plus clavulante...

The info I looked up on Gentamicin was pretty scary -- @casportpony , what do you know about it? It sounded like really serious side effects might be an issue?

So here's some of the stuff from the Wikipedia article (not that it's an infallible source, I try to cross-check references when I get stuff there), but I have no reason to necessarily question this. But again, I don't know how it affects birds. I assume it is no more soluble in their intestines than humans, though. I don't know if you would get tissue damage at the injection site, which I seem to recall is a common side effect of some injected antibiotics in peas?

Clips from wiki:

Gentamicin is an aminoglycoside antibiotic composed of a mixture of related gentamicin components and fractions and is used to treat many types of bacterial infections, particularly those caused by Gram-negative organisms.[1] However, gentamicin is not used for Neisseria gonorrhoeae, Neisseria meningitidis or Legionella pneumophila. Gentamicin is also ototoxic and nephrotoxic, with this toxicity remaining a major problem in clinical use.[1]

Like all aminoglycosides, when gentamicin is given orally, it is not systemically active. This is because it is not absorbed to any appreciable extent from the small intestine. It is administered intravenously, intramuscularly or topically to treat infections. It appears to be completely eliminated unchanged in the urine. Urine must be collected for many days to recover all of a given dose because the drug binds avidly to certain tissues.

Medical uses

Active against a wide range of human bacterial infections, mostly Gram-negative bacteria including Pseudomonas, Proteus, Serratia, and the Gram-positive Staphylococcus.[4] Gentamicin is not used for Neisseria gonorrhoeae, Neisseria meningitidis or Legionella pneumophila bacterial infections (because of the risk of the patient going into shock from lipid A endotoxin found in certain Gram-negative organisms). Gentamicin is also useful against Yersinia pestis, its relatives, and Francisella tularensis (the organism responsible for Tularemia seen often in hunters and/or trappers).[5] Some Enterobacteriaceae, Pseudomonas spp., enterococci, Staphylococcus aureus and other staphylococci are resistant to Gentamicin Sulfate, USP to varying degrees.[6]
Side effects

These aminoglycosides are toxic to the sensory cells of the ear, but they vary greatly in their relative effects on hearing versus balance. Gentamicin is a vestibulotoxin, and can cause permanent loss of equilibrioception, caused by damage to the vestibular apparatus of the inner ear, usually if taken at high doses or for prolonged periods of time, but there are well documented cases in which gentamicin completely destroyed the vestibular apparatus after three to five days.[citation needed] A small number of affected individuals have a normally harmless mutation in their mitochondrial DNA encoding the 12S ribosomal RNA (m.1555 A>G), that allows the gentamicin to affect their cells.[7] The cells of the ear are particularly sensitive to this, sometimes causing complete hearing loss.[8] However, gentamicin is sometimes used intentionally for this purpose in severe Ménière's disease, to disable the vestibular apparatus. These side effects are most common when the drug is administered via drops directly to the ear.
Gentamicin can also be highly nephrotoxic, particularly if multiple doses accumulate over a course of treatment. For this reason gentamicin is usually dosed by ideal body weight. Various formulae exist for calculating gentamicin dosage. Also trough and peak serum levels of gentamicin are monitored during treatment, generally before and after the third dose is infused.
Gentamicin, like other aminoglycosides, causes nephrotoxicity by inhibiting protein synthesis in renal cells. This mechanism specifically causes necrosis of cells in the proximal tubule, resulting in acute tubular necrosis which can lead to acute renal failure.[9]
Side effects of gentamicin toxicity vary from patient to patient. Side effects may become apparent shortly after or up to months after gentamicin is administered. Symptoms of gentamicin toxicity include:
  • Balance difficulty
  • Bouncing, unsteady vision
  • Ringing in the ears (tinnitus)
  • Difficulty multi-tasking, particularly when standing
Psychiatric symptoms related to gentamicin can occur. These include anorexia, confusion, depression, disorientation and visual hallucinations.[10] Immediate professional help should be sought if any of these symptoms or others appear after administration of aminoglycosides. General medical practitioners should refer patients with such symptoms to an otolaryngologist, commonly known as an 'ear, nose, and throat doctor', for comprehensive tests.
A number of factors and determinants should be taken into account when using gentamicin, including differentiation between empirical and directed therapy which will affect dosage and treatment period.[1] Many medical practitioners freely administer gentamicin as an antibiotic without advising patients of the severe and permanent potential ramifications of its use. Gentamicin is well known to be a cheap, low-cost yet old medicine when compared with modern alternatives, and is typically US$3–6 per dosage less than modern alternatives.
Many people recover from gentamicin toxicity naturally over time if the drug is discontinued, but they recover slowly and usually incompletely.[citation needed] Sometimes the toxicity of gentamicin can still increase over months after the last dose. Upon cessation of gentamicin therapy symptoms such as tinnitus and imbalance may become less pronounced. Sensori-neural hearing loss caused by gentamicin toxicity is permanent however.

Okay, back to me... this sounds too dangerous for me to experiment with (it sounds like monitoring with lab testing is necessary to administer it safely), and definitely something I would not want to try without a vet running the show. And I don't know what the safety and efficacy is in peas... I would want to do a lot more digging. And I don't think I particularly want the doc using this one on me unless I happen to catch the plague
sickbyc.gif
(an unfortunate possiblity here in this state
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) so think I will stick with stuff that is at least marginally safer...
 
We buy generic 10% injectable Baytril (100mg/ml). Our 100ml bottle was about $35, which is cheap. No prescription required. What we bought is the generic version of "Baytril 100".

-Kathy

That is definitely what I will do next time I need Baytril. The 100 ml bottle I bought was over $100, but it is going to last a long time.
 
We buy generic 10% injectable Baytril (100mg/ml). Our 100ml bottle was about $35, which is cheap. No prescription required. What we bought is the generic version of "Baytril 100".


-Kathy



That is definitely what I will do next time I need Baytril.  The 100 ml bottle I bought was over $100, but it is going to last a long time.


Yeah, the brand name stuff isn't cheap, especially if you buy it from a place like First State Vet or Twin City Poultry, both of those places are ripping people off, lol.

-Kathy
 
I see that only two of the antibiotics tested in your report would work on both of the bacteria.  Would your E-Coli and Pseudomonas be the same as mine?  or would they be different strains and different antibiotics would have to be used? 

Bacteria have many different strains. I 'm a microbiologist, and read "people" cultures, and I've had as an example: a person with 3 different EColi strains....All with different susceptibilities, but usually we get at least a couple drugs that work on all of them.
Most of these nasties we have as natural flora all the time until our body can't fight them off, then wham! I'm very glad we live in a time with antibiotics. :)
 
Bacteria have many different strains. I 'm a microbiologist, and read "people" cultures, and I've had as an example: a person with 3 different EColi strains....All with different susceptibilities, but usually we get at least a couple drugs that work on all of them.
Most of these nasties we have as natural flora all the time until our body can't fight them off, then wham! I'm very glad we live in a time with antibiotics.
smile.png

That goes hand in hand with what my vet tells me. In my case the birds immune system was compromised by the worms attacking it and was overwhelmed letting the E-Coli and Pseudomonas take over as a secondary infection. We were trying to treat the secondary infection without doing anything about the primary cause, that was a losing battle. Just as there is always a maintainable load of bacteria in the system, my vet also tells me that there is always a small load of Cocci and worms that do not cause a problem until the birds system is compromised by another problem.
 
Baytril by injection or orally, never in water and only treat those showing symptoms.

-Kathy


I thought everyone suggested Tylan the most. Do you only use Baytril because it is safer for all your bird species, or do you find it more effective?

Edit: Oh, everyone probably likes Tylan because it is a lot cheaper!
 
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Tylan is good for some bacteria, but will not treat E. coli or pseudomonas. Most people use it because that's what they read on forums and it's what they can get at feed stores.

-Kathy


Sorry, I thought I had read the whole thread, but missed the first two pages, which quite adequately explains the reasoning. That necropsy report is very interesting. Funny, they didn't even list Tylosin (Tylan).
 

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