Ameraucana thread for posting pictures and discussing our birds

[AinaWGSD]

There is no such thing as a "recognized breeder" of Ameraucanas. There are breeders out there who have worked their butts off and are well known because they have quality stock. But that's not the same thing at all. There is a list of breeders that the Ameraucana club maintains, but you have to be a member and you have to ask to be listed. Just because someone isn't listed as a breeder with the Ameraucana club does not mean that they aren't breeding Ameraucana or that their birds are somehow EE.

And no, the APA does not use "recognized breeders" as a point of judging. Ameraucanas are judged exactly the same as any other breed in an APA show, judged on how they physically match the written standard of perfection. There is no place on the entry form or the cage card to list what lines the bird is from or what breeder the bird came from. Thus there is no way for a judge to know whether a bird came from a well known breeder or someone who they've never heard of.

I had a purebred Ameraucana rooster and among my flock of 6 hens one of them is a purebred Ameraucana hen. Any chicks produced by that rooster and the purebred Ameraucana hen ARE Ameraucana, not EE. Unfortunately, the egg color of my Ameraucana hen is not the best. In fact, it's pretty much the exact same shade of green as my hatchery EE hen. So, I had no way of knowing which of the green eggs that hatched were true Ameraucanas and which were EE. For that reason, and that reason alone, I sold all of the chicks as EE because more than half of them were EE in the truest sense of the word (in addition to the eggs from my Ameraucana and EE there were also about a half dozen Sussex-Ameraucana and one that I strongly suspect was from my Orpington hen).

 

[BarnGoddess01]

Quote:
I'm am not attempting to argue or debate colour. I am simply stating what is published in the APA's Standard of Perfection. Ameraucanas lay "eggs with blue shells."

There are definitely some breeders that I would recognize as "breeders of Ameraucanas" - just as there are folks in the Marans world with their names attached to various lines. They understand what the breed Standard calls for. The fact is there IS a published Standard for this breed of chickens (Ameraucanas) with clearly defined characteristics and there are some established breeders that many of us recognize as meeting that Standard.

 

[Tailfeathers]

I'm am not attempting to argue or debate colour. I am simply stating what is published in the APA's Standard of Perfection. Ameraucanas lay "eggs with blue shells."

There are definitely some breeders that I would recognize as "breeders of Ameraucanas" - just as there are folks in the Marans world with their names attached to various lines. They understand what the breed Standard calls for. The fact is there IS a published Standard for this breed of chickens (Ameraucanas) with clearly defined characteristics and there are some established breeders that many of us recognize as meeting that Standard.

As I stated before, what you are referring to is in the general breed description and it is simply that. A "general" description. It is not all inclusive and more over, as I also said, nowhere under the "Qualifications" and "Disqualifications" section is eggs even discussed. That description does not define what "blue" is. Nor does it say that Ameraucanas cannot lay an egg of a different color. It is simply stating something that the breed is well known and recognized for and one that separates it from a white or brown egg layer. It's no different than the Welsummers where nothing is mentioned about what color the egg "must" be or whether it can have spots or speckles or none at all.

To further beat this horse to death but hopefully drive the point home, when one looks at the SOP as to what is required in order to get a bird approved and accepted by the APA, there is nothing about egg color required. The requirements for acceptance are clearly spelled out and the various required shows and judging do not take into consideration the egg. It's just that simple.

As for recognizing who is a "breeder of Ameraucanas", one doesn't have to have their name "attached" to various lines in order to be a serious breeder. My name is certainly not attached to the WBS variety that I know of but I'd like to consider myself a serious breeder. I've maintained a closed flock, linebred and inbred, keep good records, and am seeing consistent improvement in my flock. Slow - but steady improvement.

Furthermore, any "serious breeder" who understand the Standard knows that you must prioritize the traits you want to improve on and usually work on no more than one or two at a time. To make your #1 Priority something that is not even judged on would be foolish in the vast majority of the time.

You are absolutely correct that there IS a published Standard but anyone who has a SOP and has read it, would understand that it is anything but "clearly defined" when it comes to many characteristics. There is a lot of room for subjectivity, variation, and personal preference. And that doesn't just apply to Ameraucanas. IF egg color were a trait that was judged, I imagine it would be no different and there would be room for a wide variety of "blue" egg color.

And it's probably important here to remind everyone that "green" is simply a case of brown egg gene modifiers being present and white is simply a case of NO brown egg gene modifiers and little to know blue egg gene presence.

I don't know who "they" are, but I can say that I certainly understand what the breed Standard calls for. And as for those "established breeders" that "many of us recognize" as meeting the Standard, I don't know who "us" is but I would imagine that those breeders probably are a lot more concerned with what they think and what the judges think about their birds, than what "us" do.

I know that's the case with me. My biggest competition is myself and the SOP, then I look to the judges. What others think of my birds is not all that important to me. I may consider it - and I may not. It all depends on whether the feedback fits within my established breeding goals. Given what the judges have thought of my birds thus far, I'll let the birds speak for themselves.

God Bless,

 

[Christie Rhae]

So we all agree... ameraucanas lay blue eggs?

Lol forgive me Tailfeathers.... maybe it is late. I cannot make sense of what you are saying. Sounds like Charlie Browns parents. lol...
Ok I think I am delirious... better go to sleep.

 

[BarnGoddess01]

Quote:
I have been told by more than one breeder and more than one judge that egg colour is a "breed characteristic" and therefore, a judge CAN disqualify a bird for not meeting the breed characteristics based on egg colour. And I'm told it has happened.

 

[pips&peeps]

The general breed description in the SOP can indicate things that should be judged or how to judge. If you go to the page before ameraucanas the araucana general listing does say: "...,judges should not place undue emphasis on the shape, size and symmetry of tufts, but...."

And under disqualifications on page 32, the very first thing listed is "Specimen lacking in breed characteristics."

So, is a judge going to DQ a bird for laying a green or brown egg? I don't know, I would think that if it happened while judging is in process that a brown egg layer should be dq'd; but a green egg layer does posess the blue egg gene......

Do all ameraucanas lay blue eggs? No.

Sometimes recessive genes rear up and even with years of breeding a blue egg laying hen and a blue egg carrying cock bird can produce an offspring that lays a greener egg. I've seen it.

I would say blue eggs are ideal, but not necessarily always acheived. I would question a khaki or brown egg though.

And again a blue egg laying bird that does not meet all breed standards is not an ameraucana. They are complicated.

 

[Hangtown Farms]

I'm am not attempting to argue or debate colour. I am simply stating what is published in the APA's Standard of Perfection. Ameraucanas lay "eggs with blue shells."

There are definitely some breeders that I would recognize as "breeders of Ameraucanas" - just as there are folks in the Marans world with their names attached to various lines. They understand what the breed Standard calls for. The fact is there IS a published Standard for this breed of chickens (Ameraucanas) with clearly defined characteristics and there are some established breeders that many of us recognize as meeting that Standard.

Oh I was not arguing. just asking.
I am by no means a expert. I mostly keep Icelandic's and Penedesenca's
I like to keep a few Ameraucana , Olive Egger and Easter Egger hens around for the egg color in my eggs I sell. I was just stating that I have never seen a true blue chicken egg. Blueish yes. My Easter Egger lays the blueist egg I get but it is lighter color kinda washed out.
I just need to order the chart so I know what they are considering blue.

 

[Hangtown Farms]

The general breed description in the SOP can indicate things that should be judged or how to judge. If you go to the page before ameraucanas the araucana general listing does say: "...,judges should not place undue emphasis on the shape, size and symmetry of tufts, but...."

And under disqualifications on page 32, the very first thing listed is "Specimen lacking in breed characteristics."

So, is a judge going to DQ a bird for laying a green or brown egg? I don't know, I would think that if it happened while judging is in process that a brown egg layer should be dq'd; but a green egg layer does posess the blue egg gene......

Do all ameraucanas lay blue eggs? No.

Sometimes recessive genes rear up and even with years of breeding a blue egg laying hen and a blue egg carrying cock bird can produce an offspring that lays a greener egg. I've seen it.

I would say blue eggs are ideal, but not necessarily always acheived. I would question a khaki or brown egg though.

And again a blue egg laying bird does not meet all breed standards to call a bird an ameraucana. They are complicated.

so if you are breeding Ameraucana's I would assume if all standards are met to choose the hens that are laying the blueist egg pssible?

 

[pips&peeps]

Yes, but if you have an exceptional bird that lays a greener egg, I wouldn't hesitate to use it. Just know that you will have to spend some time on the line improving the egg color.

 

[Hangtown Farms]

Yes, but if you have an exceptional bird that lays a greener egg, I wouldn't hesitate to use it. Just know that you will have to spend some time on the line improving the egg color.

ok I plan on waiting a year or so to start to dabble. I need to learn more about them to make sure I am breeding to standard.
Plus too many fires now.. Starting a new breeding program is not in the cards but I do love keeping a few they are so friendly.

I look forward to seeing your Chocolate Ameraucana develop as well. Pretty birds.