destruction and disposal orders HELP

[MCHLMRTN]

I believe this thread is about our support system for John.  It is not about attacking John for this.  This thread also has a lot of information that is valuable.  If there is anyone who is posting on this thread with criticizing John, they are flaming or trolling, which is reportable.  And we all need to know what the rules are involving containment of AI and making sure that the people that made the rules are not breaking them either.

I know, right? The nerve of some people.

My way of avoidance(sp?) is im only hatching my own (and gfathers) eggs.
Im still hesitant to buy from the guy i got my last from bc he hatches and i dont know
if they are his own eggs or mail ordered.

 

[MCHLMRTN]

I love this guy

Mom?

 

[chiques chicks]

Umm...then...thats what im here for.

That and chicks. Lol

On a serious note...has anything been said about it being "contained" now?
Or are they still "dealing" with it?

I don't watch news or read newspaper. And if i felt like "googling it" (before some genius suggests it), i wouldnt have asked.

The USDA update page

http://www.aphis.usda.gov/wps/porta.../sa_detections_by_states/ct_ai_pacific_flyway

Wow that's a huge link.

 

[MCHLMRTN]

You don't say...

-nods-

 

[MCHLMRTN]

I have been following this from the very beginning, this has been very informative for someone who does not have his chickens yet. Still doing my due diligence before I dive in, so this topic has been very welcomed to me. John I truly feel for you and can't imagine the stress you are in nor the stress you have helped your birds avoid. This post of yours is exactly what I was wondering about the supposed vet; also Seminolewinds post a little further on referring to reporting the troll. So, I am sooooo glad things are looking good for you and your flock and I will continue to pray for negative results on Independence day. If you know when they are coming to test again, let CBS know, maybe they might like to see this process and maybe even question some of the testing associates of whatever agency it might be.

Not to mention the fact that with news there, it would probably keep the testers in line. and when you test negative (your birds rather) they will be less likely to try and pull that exicution stunt again.

 

[MCHLMRTN]

The USDA update page

http://www.aphis.usda.gov/wps/porta.../sa_detections_by_states/ct_ai_pacific_flyway

Wow that's a huge link.

Thank you.
And...yes, that is a rather large link. Its bound to make a web browser feel very lucky.

 

[HeritageGoose13]

I just been reading through this thread.
So scary what you've been going through! It's very eye-opening in a way...
More people need to pay attention to this.
Praying for you.

 

[Chipper Chicken]

I too have been following this from the beginning, and believe the "Destruction and Disposal ORDERS" were unwarranted as the tests of Johns birds AND eggs came back negative ! ( and we pray continue to come back negative) .

...

believe me, i KNOW how fortunate i am... and if i were my neighbor, i'd like to think that i would opt for the quarantine -- but i would rest easier with the d&d as far as my flock would be comcerned -- it would probably depend on how much i [COLOR=006400]trusted [/COLOR]that neighbor's compliance... with regard to them being AI clean or monitored prior to the outbreak and permit for VA, i don't know --- both are my security breaches.... at this point, i feel a follow-up news story (neg or pos) would be a good thing  --but the urgency to get them here is not as important as it was to spare my birds ... i do GET the bigger picture here as i think everyone else here does as well... but my birds and eggs tested NEGATIVE and i surrendered the eggs

Quote:
Originally Posted by chickenvet97 View Post

Just out of curiosity- did the seller of the eggs contact Virginia for an import permit? Are they AI clean or just AI monitored? It appears from other states that they shipped to that they did not contact the states for current shipping requirements ( one article quoted a need for a test 7 days prior to shipping to Louisiana)? Also it appears Johnskoi that you dodged a bullet because others are not so lucky and their eggs were positive. Someone suggested a follow up story if the tests are negative after quarantine, will you be so quick to get the news out there if you have a positive? The USDA does not use NPIP to track who might have been exposed and they do not automatically kill every bird in an area with a case. They go door to door and tell people within a 6km radius that they are quarantined. They do kill every bird on a farm that has a positive, if they didn't the birds would be dead within days. Given the huge economic risk I can understand them wanting to kill everything before there is a positive. Would everyone be so happy for Johnskoi if you were his neighbor? Let's look at the bigger picture here.
believe me, i KNOW how fortunate i am... and if i were my neighbor, i'd like to think that i would opt for the quarantine -- but i would rest easier with the d&d as far as my flock would be comcerned -- it would probably depend on how much i trusted that neighbor's compliance... with regard to them being AI clean or monitored prior to the outbreak and permit for VA, i don't know --- both are my security breaches.... at this point, i feel a follow-up news story (neg or pos) would be a good thing --but the urgency to get them here is not as important as it was to spare my birds ... i do GET the bigger picture here as i think everyone else here does as well... but my birds and eggs tested NEGATIVE and i surrendered the eggs .


.. IF any follow up testing should be a positive on the birds, i would be willing (yet devastated) to put them down
If the eggs test pos while the birds were neg, i don't know how i would react (that being said - i would NOT run with them)
Quote:
Originally Posted by chickenvet97 View Post

The AI outbreak has been ongoing since December. It is not a new news story. They have been reporting it sporadically and now that egg prices are going up it is becoming more of a hot topic.It has certainly been well discussed in all poultry circles. The USDA has published every outbreak. Most states are requiring some increased surveillance for AI prior to importing eggs or birds- which usually means a recent AI test ( 72 hrs-7days depending on the state). It behooves every poultry person to apprise and educate themselves to these changing rules. It behooves producers and sellers to follow these rules as well. Ohio has banned all import of eggs or poultry from states with infections- period. Does not matter if that infection was 500 miles away from where you want to buy eggs from. This should tell you something- it is serious and it is unpredictable in its course. To date there are 223 farms infected in the United states. They are not completely sure of the transmission- but it can be carried on the surface of eggs, the packaging material or even the box itself- so just because the eggs test negative, that is not a 100% guarantee. If your flock becomes infected, it could be days before you know, so you walk in and take care of your birds, get some feces on your shoes. No big deal right? Now you decide you need some feed so you go to the local feed store. Some of that poop falls off your shoes, and a farmer walks through it- he goes back to his farm and goes to check on his birds, now carrying AI laced feces with him. Maybe he has 10 birds, maybe he has a million layers. His farm is now infected. So now Georgia or Alabama or wherever now has a confirmed case of AI. No big deal right? Well it is reported to all the other countries that we have trade agreements with that this state has a reported case of High path avian influenza. Most countries, japan, China, The Uk etc will now ban all poultry products from that state, and not for the 21 days it takes to lift the quarantine- it will be months. It will cost the state of Georgia or Alabama or Louisiana- or wherever, millions in clean up, testing and quarantining on top of the economic losses to those companies that cannot export their products. So who cares if the government has a huge bill- we pay taxes right? Behind every poultry farm is a family- maybe they work for a corporation, or maybe they are one of the last hold outs- trying to just survive as an american farmer- they have just lost a good majority of their income. This is not some over dramatic representation of the situation- this is what has been happening all over the Midwest since April. The economic losses from exports alone is over $5 billion dollars. $5 BILLION. Let that sink in for a minute. 48,091,293 birds have been affected. Let that sink in. Behind everyone of those birds is a farmer or a backyard flock owner. I feel for every person that loses a bird to this terrible disease and I dread the fall when migration begins south and those on the east coast start seeing cases. But if you buy eggs or birds from a state that has had infections- then you better be willing to accept the consequences. If you live in a state that has had infections- then stop selling, don't wait to be told to do it, just do the ethical and moral thing and worry more about your neighbor than your pocket book. This is not about the government stepping on your civil liberties- this is about trying to stop an epidemic, to save your back yard flock as much as the big egg producer. This is about trying to prevent the next world pandemic- this strain is a mix of the strain that has been causing deaths in China. These viruses mutate and mingle and change all the time and they are one mutation away from infecting people at any given moment- think that is a stretch? Well all workers and clean up crews at the infected farms are being advised to take Tamiflu, a flu prevention drug. This is not a joke, this is not it will never happen to me,this is a disaster for the poultry industry.


i believe VA is still considered neg with regards to AI ... $wise, i think it makes it even MORE sense to qt my birds than to d&d --- especially w/ the neg results so far ... to put them down now, would leave an open question as to whether AI is here in va or not...

and a sentence from your above quote, " They do kill every bird on a farm that has a positive, if they didn't the birds would be dead within days. " --- well it's now been 13 days without a dead bird...


As for their posting, IMO, @chickenvet97 was a bit heavy handed and condescending right off the bat, apparently targeting John personally while using one of the , if not THE most important thread on BYC right now as a vehicle for trying to drive an important synopsis home. Point taken. I feel for you John and hope your quarantine is successful. . I was tempted to get my chickens this fall if my coop is done, but with all this I'm resetting that target to next March. The heartbreak and comradery and informative LINKS shared on these pages is amazing, thank you all.
(Sorry if this isn't in the proper order, but I couldn't get the multi quote thingy to work, so cut and paste was used instead )

 

[Sylvester017]

Howdy chickenvet97 I can honestly say that, in this circumstance, yes I would still be happy for Johnskoi if he was my neighbour. Actually, I would probably be ecstatic because the flock next door to me tested negative!

His birds have tested negative all along and he has repeatedly mentioned that if they test positive he will not stand in the way of what has to be done.

I was the one who suggested a follow up story if the results were negative all throughout the quarantine and the quarantine was lifted. If not for John’s efforts and the CBS story, his birds will have been destroyed for no good reason.

I can understand the killing of a positive flock and I can also understand the placing of a quarantine within a 6km radius of a positive flock BUT I most definitely can not understand “them wanting to kill everything before there is a positive”.

Rabies is an issue in the US is it not? Does “wanting to kill everything before there is a positive” also include dogs at the risk of getting rabies?

Rabies is not the issue that AI is. For rabies in the U.S.A. there is strict licensing of dogs and even door-to-door followups if the yearly licenses aren't renewed with absolute veterinary proof of rabies vaccination - thereforefore not an issue to kill all dogs at the risk of getting rabies - it's a moot point with rabies because of the strict licensing enforcement. AI and chickens only have the agricultural agencies to monitor the epidemic and depend on people who own birds to have the good sense to follow bio-security practices. Unfortunately there are many individuals we can't depend on to be careful about their birds just like there are people who wouldn't vaccinate their dogs if they weren't forced to by licensing laws. People are people and some are careful while some don't care or feel it's not important enough. It only takes a few to ruin it for the many.

 

[AmyLynn2374]

He says Hebrews didn't use vowels -like his name- and YHWH

That's exactly what I thought of when he mentioned the Hebrew thing!!!

believe me , if i was aware of the severity of the outbreak along with the geographical hot spots, i wouldn't have ordered eggs from where i did and i may not have ordered eggs at all ...

i've been up front about who i am here --- is there a reason as to why there is NOTHING in your profile as to who you are?... you say that you're chicken vet ---- i question that and think you should ujpdate your profile to increase your credibility... --- and maybe lend a hand in the emergency section in this forum instead of trying to attack and discredit me...i screwed up BIGTIME here and no one knows it more than me...

... and i have WONDERFUL neighbors who have been nothing BUT supportive (and i just moved here in december) ..i'm curious -- how well do you know your neighbors and do you think they'd support you in a similar situation?

i almost wonder if you have stock in 'tamiflu' or the white booties...

The last time i saw somthing that wasn't there...she quickly filed a restraining order

Im on the fence about psychiatry. The main reason, the most level headed, down to earth, conformist, who has never had
anything wrong mentally or emotionally...could go into therapy, and they will find "something" wrong with that person. I think
the real problem with people are 1)not enough @$$ whippings(lack of discipline = ADD/ADHD), 2)too many @$$ whippings(abuse = anger issues)
And then you have thise who are actually mentally impaired.

We all have issues...why judge? That excludes stupid. Stupidity is unforgivable. Lol.

LOL Agreed

I love this guy

Because he's just like you!!!! Are you sure you didn't create a second account? I thought they broke the mold when they made you! lmao