Game Cock Conditioner = much less poop?

[speckledhen]

Quote: Actually, there is a test for Marek's in the bloodstream. It's called a PCR test. It doesnt project if the bird will develop tumors, though. Check this one out. http://tvmdl.tamu.edu/tests_services/test_info.php?unit_id=1187

There is a long running thread here about breeding for resistance where we have oodles of information about this disease, as well as Nambroth's page on it, which is quite extensive. Vaccinating for Marek's will not prevent the disease and the one the public can get their hands on, per University of Kentucky vet and state of GA vet, is of little use. It's different from the ones the hatcheries use, which must be stored at -170*.

Quote:


And with that, the thread is off topic. Back on topic, animal protein is in my scratch grains mix (12% protein total), but they usually get layer pellets (22%, sometimes 16%). My bantams have zero issue with eating whole kernel corn in the Knockout game mix-my Belgian D'anver rooster picks out all the huge kernels before anything else. And he's a little critter.

The poop load seems to relate to how many calories they are using to stay warm in winter or run around like crazies in summer more than the feed.

 

[Sonya9]

The problem is that a chicken must be exposed to the Mareks virus but not become infected in order to be sure that immunity has been conveyed. Not culling an infected bird won't result in the chicken breeder getting any closer to an immune flock.

I don't think you understand how Marek's spreads or presents. If a bird has it, even if there are NO symptoms then in all likelihood the entire FLOCK will be exposed. It is a herpes virus that is shed from feather dust.

Killing a sick bird does little or NOTHING to protect the other flocks members from Marek's, you are only killing the symptom and not the cause. Plenty of chicken breeders around here have told me they believe they have seen Marek's in their flocks, that means they ARE breeding for resistance as the birds that did not get sick but were exposed DO have some natural resistance and the birds that are very sucsceptible will like get sick and die of it.

The Marek's tests do not look for antibodies, they look for the actual live virus (or virus dna), because of that the tests are not very reliable on live birds. Just like testing poop for parasites, a negative test does not always mean no parasites, it may just mean the sample tested did not have enough parasites to be seen.

 

[Sonya9]

Vaccinating for Marek's will not prevent the disease and the one the public can get their hands on, per University of Kentucky vet and state of GA vet, is of little use. It's different from the ones the hatcheries use, which must be stored at -170*.

Exactly. Vaccinating doesn't mean the birds can't get the virus and shed the virus after exposure to other birds. Vaccination just means the bird has a much greater chance of NOT getting sick from the Marek's virus after exposure. Course now that I think I have it in the flock if/when I get young birds I will have to make sure they were vaccinated as chicks.

 

[speckledhen]

Trust me, we've been through all the discussions round and round here, Sonya. My birds do not have Marek's, are not vaccinated for Marek's and I never intend to do so. You cannot breed for resistance if you vaccinate-it defeats the purpose entirely. Consumer vaccines are not the same as the hatcheries' vaccines, either, but neither is a real preventative, only a mask. Breeders who shrug off the disease as ubiquitous and just sell birds from positive flocks (which we've seen here on BYC quite a bit, sadly) are only making everything worse and spreading the disease themselves. Not all flocks have it, as not all flocks have Mycoplasmosis, though some folks have written that most all do and you can't avoid it. Mine are also MG-free. You cannot cure a herpes virus, only subdue the symptoms if you have anti-virals. It's simply there forever. And you can't let a bird leave your property.

AGAIN, we are supposed to be talking about feed and poop outputs on this thread. I personally think feed is not so much to blame for poop outputs as their caloric needs due to stress and weather, though probably certain feeds are used more efficiently. Chickens are pretty good at processing most any grain source or animal source.

 

[Sonya9]

You cannot cure a herpes virus, only subdue the symptoms if you have anti-virals. It's simply there forever. And you can't let a bird leave your property.

Yes I understand that it will always be there. I do not breed/sell birds though if I get young birds in the future I will get vaccinated pullets from a local hatchery.

 

[speckledhen]

Yes I understand that it will always be there. I do not breed/sell birds though if I get young birds in the future I will get vaccinated pullets from a local hatchery.

Of course, I wasn't referring to you when I said that about breeders, just making a general statement. I wish you all the best with your flocks.

 

[Chris09]

I don't think you understand how Marek's spreads or presents. If a bird has it, even if there are NO symptoms then in all likelihood the entire FLOCK will be exposed. It is a herpes virus that is shed from feather dust.

Killing a sick bird does little or NOTHING to protect the other flocks members from Marek's, you are only killing the symptom and not the cause. Plenty of chicken breeders around here have told me they believe they have seen Marek's in their flocks, that means they ARE breeding for resistance as the birds that did not get sick but were exposed DO have some natural resistance and the birds that are very sucsceptible will like get sick and die of it.

The Marek's tests do not look for antibodies, they look for the actual live virus (or virus dna), because of that the tests are not very reliable on live birds. Just like testing poop for parasites, a negative test does not always mean no parasites, it may just mean the sample tested did not have enough parasites to be seen.

I'll say this and then I'm done because we are way off topic.
You will never kill the cause of (MD), what you can do is build up a resentence to (MD) in a set bird.
Now even though a hen may have a resentence to (MD) that does not mean her off spring will have that same resentence to (MD), her offspring will only have some resentence to (MD) for a few days after hatch after that her offspring will have to build up there own resentence to (MD).

Now since there are a number of other diseases and deficiencies that mimic (MD) the only real way to tell if a bird has (MD) is by a necropsy.


I think more people need to start looking outside the box when dealing with these diseases, they make it harder than it should be.
Just get yourself a turkey and your (MD) problems (if that's what it is) should be gone in the future.

 

[chickengeorgeto]

I don't think you understand how Marek's spreads or presents. If a bird has it, even if there are NO symptoms then in all likelihood the entire FLOCK will be exposed....

Killing a sick bird does little or NOTHING to protect the other flocks members from Marek's.... Plenty of chicken breeders around here have told me they believe they have seen Marek's in their flocks, that means they ARE breeding for resistance as the birds that did not get sick but were exposed DO have some natural resistance and the birds that are very sucsceptible will like get sick and die of it....

I would expect that every chicken not hatched and living in an isolation chamber all its life has been exposed to Mareks Disease at sometime in its life. Mareks Disease is rampant in the wild bird population and in every nook and cranny of every chicken coop. Furthermore there are several, maybe up to 5 or more strains of the Mareks virus and each strain requires its own separate vaccine. Normally only the vaccine for the strain most prevalent in your local is administered at the hatchery. I mentioned that I though that a Mareks test would never be available. However a blood test for the active form of Mareks will prove the only way to breed Mareks resistant chickens. Without this test you could just as well try and breed a red chicken without ever knowing what color the feathers are on every generation of fowl that you breed. In this case how dose anyone know if they are making progress toward the goal of a Mareks free flock? You can't because the only goal that matters is if your chickens are currently Mareks free, X # of days after being exposed to the Mareks virus or viruses. Besides the total load of the Mareks virus that a hen is exposed to seems to play a large role in whether a chicken will develop active Mareks Disease. In this case culling a Mareks Mary who is shedding the Mareks virus in large amounts seems like the wise thing to do.

As for testing for Mareks Disease, the only diagnostic test currently in use for Mareks is a Necropsy of any chicken that is suspected of dying from an active case of Mareks. The Necropsy looks for enlarged nerves and a special type of tumor or cancerous growth that is associated with Mareks Disease. As far as I am aware, no blood test yet exists like the specific antigen test used to identify Pullorum - Typhoid disease. In fact the Mareks virus is so widespread that it should be found in virtually every chicken tested for Mareks.

There is however a wonderful tool available to geneticist that should provide chickens with complete immunity against Mareks. The problem with this tool is that it will goad every nut case to flop around like a fish out of water screaming "Franken Food, Franken Food, Franken Food." Of course I am talking about DNA Sequencing, otherwise known as "Genetic Engineering." In 5 to 10 years time Mareks could be totally eradicated from domestic chicken populations but only at the cost of possibly reduced sales of domestic chickens and eggs.

Currently there is a Genetically Modified rice verity that has been awaiting approval for 15 years. This rice verity is called Golden Rice and Golden Rice has beta carotene, a precursor of Vitamin A. No one like the evil Monsanto is even proposing to sell this GM rice verity to poor small farmers in Third World countries. They want to give it away to the Third World, like for free. Third World farmers would even be allowed to save their Golden Rice seed from year to year or crop to crop and replant Golden Rice to their hearts content. However during the 15 years that Golden Rice has been in existence certain groups has prevented its release. During this time 45,000,000 innocent children in impoverished countries have died, or became permanently blind from Vitamin A Deficiency.

The reason I mentioned this is because Genetically Modification seems like the perfect way to confer total Mareks resistance to chickens. The only reason that I can see that this isn't being currently attempted is because if a group of people (like those resisting the release of free Golden Rice seeds to the world's poor) would condemn 30,000,000 human children to a life of perpetual blindness and the even more everlasting death, how much more happy will those people be to condemn the lowly chicken to a slow death from Mareks Disease by opposing raising and eating a chicken variety or the eggs from a chicken variety that has undergone Genetic Modification?

 

[speckledhen]

NVM. Sorry. Continue. I just realized that Sonya is the OP.

 

[Sonya9]

The reason I mentioned this is because Genetically Modification seems like the perfect way to confer total Mareks resistance to chickens. The only reason that I can see that this isn't being currently attempted is because if a group of people (like those resisting the release of free Golden Rice seeds to the world's poor) would condemn 30,000,000 human children to a life of perpetual blindness and the even more everlasting death, how much more happy will those people be to condemn the lowly chicken to a slow death from Mareks Disease by opposing raising and eating a chicken variety or the eggs from a chicken variety that has undergone Genetic Modification?

Errrrmmmm....earth to ChickenGeorge.....

Nature is the master when it comes to modifying genes and creating resistant species/organisms. Genetically modifying chickens is not necessary even IF it is possible/financially feasible, they can reproduce and turn out a new generation every 8 months. Natural/selective breeding would wipe the disease related deaths out of most chickens and be far more practical.

It will happen either way, the disease is being spread far and wide, there are a bazillion chickens and they will adapt.