Wheaten and Blue wheaten Marans Discussion Thread

[snowbird]

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Debbi, one thing to remember when breeding chickens is that when breeding Parti colored fowl it is not likely you will get show quality by breeding fowl that have the proper color. All of this usually boils down to averaging out the color from one to the other. Don

 

[Debbi]

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Debbi, one thing to remember when breeding chickens is that when breeding Parti colored fowl it is not likely you will get show quality by breeding fowl that have the proper color. All of this usually boils down to averaging out the color from one to the other. Don

Don ~ I know that it works that way with dogs too. Some of my best dogs came from very "doggie", dark, and oversized females.

 

[Sparklee]

From what breeds are the Marans descended? Any Red Jungle Fowl in their heritage? I would guess so since they are supposed have game fowls in their background from way back in the time of Eleanor of Aquitane. Any Red Jungle Fowl blood in Langshans or Brahmas (which were also supposed used in their development of the Marans breed in France)? The Red Jungle Fowl has that cotton ball. Period. It's genetic. You can't breed the cotton ball out of the Red Jungle Fowl, can you? Maybe it can't be bred out of the Wheaten Marans and that's why *all* of them have the feathering they do. Brown Leghorns all have that tuft and others do too. The Black Coppers don't have it because of EE or melanizers, but the Wheaten Marans are closer to Black Breasted Reds in coloring and therefore have the cotton ball.

I could be wrong, but I could be exactly correct also. Someone should prove me wrong. Whether the Wheaten Marans have the cotton ball at the base of the tail should be a genetics issue and figured out by a genetics expert. It should not be based on what the APA wants or what someone thinks a Wheaten Marans cock should look like. Can you just imagine the APA saying that the cotton ball is a DQ when it is supposed to be their based on the genetic make up of the Wheaten Marans? That would be a shame, but it could happen.

Do any APA judges have degrees in genetics? Do any Marans Club USA members (the ones patching together the standards) have genetics degrees? Or any type of training in genetics? I've read some of the comments by the members working on the standards and one or two seem patently clueless when it comes to genetics.

I could go on but it's not good for my heart.

 

[snowbird]

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The only thing I can say for certain is APA has said these fowl with the cottontail will be a fault. I do not think anyone really knows what is for sure in the background of the Wheaten. They were recognized on a few year ago in France. I fail to realize how Genetics can be a factor when no one knows what is in the background. I for one wish someone would come up with a viable plan to breed this cottontail out of the wheaten. I plan on trying one way and see what the result is with the young. If I can't figure it out will just show female Marans wheatens. Don

 

[Medicine Man]

But Don, if you show the male with the cotton, nobody else will beat it on that alone because theirs will have it as well.

 

[flgardengirl]

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Good point! I have thought the same thing about the red jungle fowl and its cotton ball fluff. I thought, geez it looks similar to wheaten coloring and it has the fluff present as well. Of course there are differences but they were mixed with the marsh hens and other game birds used for cockfighting and who knows what all else really. I think my blue copper marans roos have extra gamebird genes in them and it shows in their personalities LOL! A couple are pretty rowdy and want to fight all the time.

 

[snowbird]

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Not all the wheaten males will have the cottontail . I think it is possible to breed it out with the right female and culling the young real hard. When the day comes that I think I can't improve them to where they are acceptable to the Standard and without the cottonball will cull them all. I only have five variety of fowl besides my Marans and they are top of the line show bred. If I can't breed the Marans to be acceptable very fast will cull all. I am breeding for Show Type and not for egg shows. I have nothing against people showing eggs but it is not for me. Don

 

[Cowgirlgrace]

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These are my thoughts exactly. Was wondering what their reasons were for calling it a fault. Do they have genetics to back it up or is it just a personal preference and they just decided they didn't like the way it looked? Also was wondering, and I don't know much about genetics so forgive me, is it possible for a gene to be piggybacked on another? Like to get a certain desirable trait, you can't get it without certain other traits that someone decided they didn't like but since they go together you can't breed one without the other?

 

[snowbird]

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These are my thoughts exactly. Was wondering what their reasons were for calling it a fault. Do they have genetics to back it up or is it just a personal preference and they just decided they didn't like the way it looked? Also was wondering, and I don't know much about genetics so forgive me, is it possible for a gene to be piggybacked on another? Like to get a certain desirable trait, you can't get it without certain other traits that someone decided they didn't like but since they go together you can't breed one without the other?

Grace, I know nothing about the genetic text, but I have some knowledge of what will happen if you breed one female to one male. The APA has their SOP and that is what they go by when they say you can have this and you can not have that. This is something that in the USA is not going to change regardless if it is right or wrong. Nothing say we can't breed them any way we would like, it is just if you plan on showing or selling show quality producing eggs you will have to breed to the APA SOP. Not saying I like all the terms but what is a person to do if we do not like them, Don

 

[Sparklee]

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I don't know much about genetics either, so forgive me, too.

Brachydactyly and shank/toe feathering is similar to that, if I'm understanding your question properly. These two genes seem to be linked and it's difficult (possibly impossible) to get rid of the the short toe without taking away the feathering on that toe also. Marans are supposed to have feathering on that toe.

There's a lot that isn't yet known about a number of genes. Making up crazy rules about what a bird can't and can have based on what someone thinks is proper is a questionable practice unless their opinion is based on some superlative and well-documented genetics knowledge.