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[LoveThatChick]

Racist? Are you serious, Arroz? We're bringing in cool mythology from the Native Americans. We're appreciating that mythology in all its coolness. That's racist? We have amazing, well-rounded characters who are Native American. That's racist? Please, tell me more, because I seem to be confused as to what racism is. Racism is hating someone for their race, according to me. But it seems, according to you, that I'm wrong.

Look, I get what you're saying. I understand that you feel we're mushing Native Americans into some sort of disrespectful amalgamation, but a) We don't mean any harm, and certainly not racism. We appreciate the mythology and such, and we're not making fun of it. b) Every culture is tweaked around a bit in making shows, books, and movies for people to make it their own or make it make more sense to people. c) We're just having fun and playing a game!

Well, you could have PMed it to us, don't you think? Not publicly accused us of racism. I know I'm coming off as harsh, but honestly, you've made me really mad. I apologize for getting so angry, but you've falsely accused me of something I find abhorrent.

Oh, and as a gesture of RESPECT, we made our own tribe to avoid "s[COLOR=333333]tepping on what they worship, especially when there has been a lot of horrible instances in the past where people have been forced to convert and have had their traditions stripped from them".[/COLOR]

I could not agree more, McFuzz, and it upset me too.

Arroz, I appreciate that you, as am I, are against racism, and that you are not afraid to speak out when you perceive it. But this is not, and saying that it is as a passing comment isn't kind. We haven't even started the RP yet, and you're casting it in a bad light.

 

[Gertrude McFuzz]

I could not agree more, McFuzz, and it upset me too.

Arroz, I appreciate that you, as am I, are against racism, and that you are not afraid to speak out when you perceive it. But this is not, and saying that it is as a passing comment isn't kind. We haven't even started the RP yet, and you're casting it in a bad light.

Thanks LTC. And you've brought up something important: We haven't even started!

Arroz, you think what we've done is racist? What you've done, potentially getting our RP shut down for all I know, is hurtful.

 

[Arroz con Pollo]

Quote: And you don't think I'm not feeling fired up? As soon as I read through this, I got uncomfortable. I deal with racism each week, it's a part of my daily life. Don't think I'm trying to call you, as a person, racist though. I don't like to do that. You're not racist. A little confused, maybe, but not bigoted or horrid or stupid. I know you mean well, but please do not get hostile with me when I try to point these things out.

Just because "everyone else is doing it" "and it's fun" doesn't mean it's relevant or acceptable. I'm not saying you can't have characters of different backgrounds, I'm just trying to say that you need to be sensitive about it and research the culture thoroughly, and take the culture's voices into account. You arguing with a person of Native descent over a role play centered on people of Native descent and not validating their opinions on it isn't really a pretty thing.

You know, I contemplated whether to do this via PM or not, but I ultimately chose not to because I think it's important for things like this to be heard by more than one person. It sounds crappy because it totally is crappy, but that's what discrimination is: crappy.

I'm not sure how "everything is racist" is relevant here, though. Personally, at least.

Oh, and as a gesture of RESPECT, we made our own tribe to avoid "stepping on what they worship, especially when there has been a lot of horrible instances in the past where people have been forced to convert and have had their traditions stripped from them".

Ahhh, I get it, if that's the case. That's actually a good call on your part.

Also, LoveThatChick, I really want to thank you for how you treated this. You did not make me feel singled out.

Oi. I need a motrin.

 

[LoveThatChick]

And you don't think I'm not feeling fired up? As soon as I read through this, I got uncomfortable. I deal with racism each week, it's a part of my daily life. Don't think I'm trying to call you, as a person, racist though. I don't like to do that. You're not racist. A little confused, maybe, but not bigoted or horrid or stupid. I know you mean well, but please do not get hostile with me when I try to point these things out.

Just because "everyone else is doing it" "and it's fun" doesn't mean it's relevant or acceptable. I'm not saying you can't have characters of different backgrounds, I'm just trying to say that you need to be sensitive about it and research the culture thoroughly, and take the culture's voices into account. You arguing with a person of Native descent over a role play centered on people of Native descent and not validating their opinions on it isn't really a pretty thing.

You know, I contemplated whether to do this via PM or not, but I ultimately chose not to because I think it's important for things like this to be heard by more than one person. It sounds crappy because it totally is crappy, but that's what discrimination is: crappy.

I'm not sure how "everything is racist" is relevant here, though. Personally, at least.
Ahhh, I get it, if that's the case. That's actually a good call on your part.

Also, LoveThatChick, I really want to thank you for how you treated this. You did not make me feel singled out.

Oi. I need a motrin.

I don't want you to feel like we're attacking you, it's just a little difficult not to be upset when we've put so much work into it, and have done it in a way that we felt was respectful and not discriminating.

I think that the main problem we are having here, is that McFuzz and I, in writing this RP, were doing our best not to upset or offend. We both are well-read on the subject, and did certain things, like not using a real tribes name, to try and minimize any discomfort or anger that it could cause. And yes, it is based on the Navajo peoples beliefs, but we chose not to have it centric for the reasons above.

Personally, I find it irritating that there are no RPs here, that are based around cultures other then European or Asian ones, and I rarely see characters that are other then white or asian. I'm not saying that it's wrong, it's just peoples preference that is usually based on what race they are - I'm a mix of pretty much everything, including a fair percentage of Native American and French. One of my thoughts I had when we came up with the idea for this RP, was how other cultures were not being represented, and what a shame that was.

I respect the culture thoroughly, and I'm very open to any suggestions you have as to changes that could be made to help it be more palatable.

 

[awesome308]

I don't want to be a role play Nazi. I really don't (especially considering I've been gone for a while heh).

This RP is a bit racist.

This is Dragapacacorn 'cause I'm too lazy to get out my own IPad. So what you're saying is you can't use Americans for your Roleplays because you're Native American. Think about it.

((If I got so,etching wrong it's cause I only skimmed))

 

[Dragapacacorn]

((OK I HAVE RED THE ARGUMENT))

Of course.

Native American lore and legend is extremely wide and diverse group to group. We're not just a solid group of people, we have different tribes, nations, religions, mythos, traditions, regalia, languages, etc. The skin-walker legend is typically associated with the Navajo people, who are from the southwest, but the characters in your story are from the plains region.

Many of the names used by the Native American characters in your RP have unrelated origins - Orenda is an Iroquois (eastern woodlands) term, for instance - and Notaku is, apparently, Miwok (northern Californian). You have to be really careful about choosing Native American names from the internet, too, they're usually fake. Plus, almost nobody nowadays has traditional names, we're all Bob Smiths and Mary Jones' like most everyone else.

Also, be careful with using these old religious practices in role plays, especially if you are not a part of the culture that has these practices and traditions and have not studied them thoroughly. People still believe in traditional religions, you don't want to step on what they worship, especially when there has been a lot of horrible instances in the past where people have been forced to convert and have had their traditions stripped from them.

I hope that cleared my concerns up.

*Epic high five for getting cultures down, especially Native American- it takes skills.

I think what you're saying here is more of a warning, and thanks! If you have any warnings, throw me a PM.

Nope.

It's far more complex than that, but that is a part of it, essentially. You won't get it if you haven't experienced it, though, racism is a really broad category of things.

I hope I don't get this thread shut down or censored, by the way, that's not my goal. I apologize in advance if any of that happens. I just needed to express this.

*high five for getting racism right*



OK IM OUT. Sorry for looking like a tool. I'm kinda like that sometimes. Feel free to punch me.

 

[Arroz con Pollo]

You know, forget I even said anything. No matter how hard I try to explain these things, you're not going to exactly get it, you're going to be upset, and I fully accept that. I tried being as nice as I could but instead I now have people pointing the "well no actually you're the racist one" finger at me. I never said I didn't want more diversity, I actually want that, but the difference is between stereotypical representation and accurate representation.

 

[Arroz con Pollo]

((OK I HAVE RED THE ARGUMENT))
Quote: Shhh, no you're fine.

 

[Dragapacacorn]

Shhh, no you're fine.

Ok, if you say so. I am really sorry for acting like an a** beforehand. Read before you speak, gotta remember that.

 

[Mantha8225]

Arroz, all I'm going to say is that, in your pm's, you were starting to really offend me and you were being a bit insensitive. I'm not trying to make the problem worse than it already is, but I'm just making my point heard. Mantha out.