Poor guy!
Let's tag in @microchick to see if she recognizes this as Marek's disease.
He's been getting vitamin therapy right?
Let's tag in @microchick to see if she recognizes this as Marek's disease.
He's been getting vitamin therapy right?
13 week old black copper Marans sitting a lot
- Thread starter PegJ
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Thanks for the tag, @Wyorp Rock.
@PegJ I am so sorry that that your Marans is under the weather. I've read through the posts a bit hurriedly (baking cookies) but I did watch the video twice. The tremor when he walks is weird. Marek's paralysis usually starts with a limp then progresses until the bird is totally incapacitated and paralyzed.
Could he have Marek's? Anything is possible but I suspect he does have some sort of neurological disorder going on. Both of his legs are trembling and the more he walks the more he trembles until he just gives up and sits down.
The big question is what is it? He's been vaccinated but vaccinations are not 100% as we are all currently discovering. So could he have a neurological form of Marek's Disease? Possible but unless it progresses I doubt if that is what is wrong. Unfortunately the birds I had with neurological form of MD all progressed and none of them survived.
My best advice is to keep him drinking and eating. Have you tried scrambled eggs with a bit of probiotic mixed in for him? Very few chickens can resist scrambled eggs. If they do they truly are very sick. That plus a wait to see what happens.
IF and mind you I am saying IF he does not survive I would recommend a necropsy be done so you can see if what he has is something that would endanger the flock. Otherwise offer supportive treatment and see if progresses or if he becomes stronger on his own.
Any chance he has been around anything that he could have eaten that was toxic?
@PegJ I am so sorry that that your Marans is under the weather. I've read through the posts a bit hurriedly (baking cookies) but I did watch the video twice. The tremor when he walks is weird. Marek's paralysis usually starts with a limp then progresses until the bird is totally incapacitated and paralyzed.
Could he have Marek's? Anything is possible but I suspect he does have some sort of neurological disorder going on. Both of his legs are trembling and the more he walks the more he trembles until he just gives up and sits down.
The big question is what is it? He's been vaccinated but vaccinations are not 100% as we are all currently discovering. So could he have a neurological form of Marek's Disease? Possible but unless it progresses I doubt if that is what is wrong. Unfortunately the birds I had with neurological form of MD all progressed and none of them survived.
My best advice is to keep him drinking and eating. Have you tried scrambled eggs with a bit of probiotic mixed in for him? Very few chickens can resist scrambled eggs. If they do they truly are very sick. That plus a wait to see what happens.
IF and mind you I am saying IF he does not survive I would recommend a necropsy be done so you can see if what he has is something that would endanger the flock. Otherwise offer supportive treatment and see if progresses or if he becomes stronger on his own.
Any chance he has been around anything that he could have eaten that was toxic?
- Thread starter
- #33
PegJ
Chirping
I started him on B and E as soon as someone suggested it. I'm putting the electrolites with vitamins in his water (they've been getting that on and off since they arrived) and we started scrambled eggs yesterday. I don't have any probiotics on hand, but hubby is going to the store and I thought I'd have him pick some of them up along with some plain yogurt. Someone suggested that and it'd make it easier to get the vitamins down him. He's gotten so he gets upset when I try to get them in his beak and don't want to stress him any more than I have to.
He's one of 25, and we've been watching all the others closely. None of them have any symptoms at all, so if he got into something toxic, I don't know how another one didn't also. You know how they are if one has something! Same with the Marek's, you would think if that's what he has, others would have it too? Also, he's been doing the sitting all the time for at least a month now. I'm assuming because his legs were already getting shaky and weak. Doesn't Marek's make them much sicker faster than that? I've not read a lot about it because I thought we were safe with them being vaccinated.
Since I have 5 all black and 3 black with feathered legs, I guess it took me a little while to realise it was just him sitting all the time. Bad chick mom
He is eating and drinking now, but not as much as he should, since the other's are out growing him quickly. Yes, he loved the scrambled eggs, but I gave him a small handful and he ate about half of it before quitting.
There are NO avian vets anywhere near. We'd have to drive him 2 hours to Tampa to find one, at least that's what the other people with chickens near are telling me.
Trying not to get too frustrated. He was my one Marans rooster (they are so pretty) for the 2 Marans hens. The rest are mostly Bramahs (several roosters) with a couple of Welsummers, Easter Eggers, Barred Rocks and Black Australorps hens. I got a really good mix, plus the one Blue Orpington thrown in for free. All the others seem to be doing great. Almost look like full grown chickens at 12 weeks (yes, I miscounted weeks when I started this story)
Thank you again for all your help. I'm off to scramble eggs and make pies
I look so forward to you guys replies, it does help a lot!
He's one of 25, and we've been watching all the others closely. None of them have any symptoms at all, so if he got into something toxic, I don't know how another one didn't also. You know how they are if one has something! Same with the Marek's, you would think if that's what he has, others would have it too? Also, he's been doing the sitting all the time for at least a month now. I'm assuming because his legs were already getting shaky and weak. Doesn't Marek's make them much sicker faster than that? I've not read a lot about it because I thought we were safe with them being vaccinated.
Since I have 5 all black and 3 black with feathered legs, I guess it took me a little while to realise it was just him sitting all the time. Bad chick mom He is eating and drinking now, but not as much as he should, since the other's are out growing him quickly. Yes, he loved the scrambled eggs, but I gave him a small handful and he ate about half of it before quitting.
There are NO avian vets anywhere near. We'd have to drive him 2 hours to Tampa to find one, at least that's what the other people with chickens near are telling me.
Trying not to get too frustrated. He was my one Marans rooster (they are so pretty) for the 2 Marans hens. The rest are mostly Bramahs (several roosters) with a couple of Welsummers, Easter Eggers, Barred Rocks and Black Australorps hens. I got a really good mix, plus the one Blue Orpington thrown in for free. All the others seem to be doing great. Almost look like full grown chickens at 12 weeks (yes, I miscounted weeks when I started this story)
Thank you again for all your help. I'm off to scramble eggs and make pies
I look so forward to you guys replies, it does help a lot!- Thread starter
- #34
PegJ
Chirping
Merry Christmas to everyone!I started him on B and E as soon as someone suggested it. I'm putting the electrolites with vitamins in his water (they've been getting that on and off since they arrived) and we started scrambled eggs yesterday. I don't have any probiotics on hand, but hubby is going to the store and I thought I'd have him pick some of them up along with some plain yogurt. Someone suggested that and it'd make it easier to get the vitamins down him. He's gotten so he gets upset when I try to get them in his beak and don't want to stress him any more than I have to.
He's one of 25, and we've been watching all the others closely. None of them have any symptoms at all, so if he got into something toxic, I don't know how another one didn't also. You know how they are if one has something! Same with the Marek's, you would think if that's what he has, others would have it too? Also, he's been doing the sitting all the time for at least a month now. I'm assuming because his legs were already getting shaky and weak. Doesn't Marek's make them much sicker faster than that? I've not read a lot about it because I thought we were safe with them being vaccinated.
He is eating and drinking now, but not as much as he should, since the other's are out growing him quickly. Yes, he loved the scrambled eggs, but I gave him a small handful and he ate about half of it before quitting.
There are NO avian vets anywhere near. We'd have to drive him 2 hours to Tampa to find one, at least that's what the other people with chickens near are telling me.
Trying not to get too frustrated. He was my one Marans rooster (they are so pretty) for the 2 Marans hens. The rest are mostly Bramahs (several roosters) with a couple of Welsummers, Easter Eggers, Barred Rocks and Black Australorps hens. I got a really good mix, plus the one Blue Orpington thrown in for free. All the others seem to be doing great. Almost look like full grown chickens at 12 weeks (yes, I miscounted weeks when I started this story)
Thank you again for all your help. I'm off to scramble eggs and make pies
And to you too, Peg and everyone else.
Peg I think you are doing all you can for him. I'm leaning towards it not being MD due to the length of time that he has been exhibiting symptoms. The one bird that I lost to scissor paralysis was a 9 week old pullet. She started limping, then curling her toes on her left foot called knuckling under. Then she dragged the foot behind her, then started dragging her wing, then the left leg started to show symptoms of weakness for her. When the other juveniles started picking on her I put her down. This all happened within a 5 day span of time so it happened quickly.
I've lost birds to seizures and odd neurological symptoms like spinning circles until they fall over then spinning on a shoulder, Sudden jumps straight in the air. ETC. All progressively get worse and that just doesn't sound like what your rooster is doing.
@Wyorp Rock. Have you ever encountered avian encephalomyelitis? I found this in my go to Merck's Veterinary Manual. The symptomology is:
The main clinical signs of avian encephalomyelitis are ataxia and leg weakness that varies from sitting on hocks to paresis that progresses to paralysis and recumbency. Fine tremors of the head and neck are evident in some birds and are characteristic of the disease. They are responsible for the common name, epidemic tremors. Tremors vary in frequency and severity and are best seen after birds are disturbed or excited. This can easily be done by placing the bird on its back and letting it right itself. Cupping the bird in one's hands often results in a buzzing feeling because of rapid, fine tremors. Severely affected birds lay on their side and exhibit intermittent fine tremors of the head, neck, and legs.
Horizontally infected chicks usually show clinical signs at 2–4 weeks of age; thus, clinical disease progresses through the flock for the first few weeks, and the episode is usually over by the time the flock is ~4 weeks old. Morbidity and mortality rates vary and depend on the level of egg transmission and degree of immunity in the flock. In severe outbreaks, both morbidity and mortality may exceed 50%.
After 4 weeks of age, chickens are resistant to disease but not to infection. An exception occurs occasionally in older chickens after vaccination with chick-embryo–propagated vaccines in which the vaccine virus inadvertently becomes embryo-adapted during production of the vaccine. Chick-embryo-adapted strains are highly neurotropic and can cause clinical disease after parenteral administration. Affected birds exhibit typical neurologic signs like those seen in younger chicks.
Only thing is that Peg's bird is the only one who is symptomatic and this reads like it affects multiple if not all birds but the symptoms are similar.
Maybe the Roo has some form of brain or neuro infection going on?
Peg I think you are doing all you can for him. I'm leaning towards it not being MD due to the length of time that he has been exhibiting symptoms. The one bird that I lost to scissor paralysis was a 9 week old pullet. She started limping, then curling her toes on her left foot called knuckling under. Then she dragged the foot behind her, then started dragging her wing, then the left leg started to show symptoms of weakness for her. When the other juveniles started picking on her I put her down. This all happened within a 5 day span of time so it happened quickly.
I've lost birds to seizures and odd neurological symptoms like spinning circles until they fall over then spinning on a shoulder, Sudden jumps straight in the air. ETC. All progressively get worse and that just doesn't sound like what your rooster is doing.
@Wyorp Rock. Have you ever encountered avian encephalomyelitis? I found this in my go to Merck's Veterinary Manual. The symptomology is:
- Ataxia
- Tremors
- Weakness that progresses to paralysis and recumbency.
- But I can't find any reference to leg tremors.
The main clinical signs of avian encephalomyelitis are ataxia and leg weakness that varies from sitting on hocks to paresis that progresses to paralysis and recumbency. Fine tremors of the head and neck are evident in some birds and are characteristic of the disease. They are responsible for the common name, epidemic tremors. Tremors vary in frequency and severity and are best seen after birds are disturbed or excited. This can easily be done by placing the bird on its back and letting it right itself. Cupping the bird in one's hands often results in a buzzing feeling because of rapid, fine tremors. Severely affected birds lay on their side and exhibit intermittent fine tremors of the head, neck, and legs.
Horizontally infected chicks usually show clinical signs at 2–4 weeks of age; thus, clinical disease progresses through the flock for the first few weeks, and the episode is usually over by the time the flock is ~4 weeks old. Morbidity and mortality rates vary and depend on the level of egg transmission and degree of immunity in the flock. In severe outbreaks, both morbidity and mortality may exceed 50%.
After 4 weeks of age, chickens are resistant to disease but not to infection. An exception occurs occasionally in older chickens after vaccination with chick-embryo–propagated vaccines in which the vaccine virus inadvertently becomes embryo-adapted during production of the vaccine. Chick-embryo-adapted strains are highly neurotropic and can cause clinical disease after parenteral administration. Affected birds exhibit typical neurologic signs like those seen in younger chicks.
Only thing is that Peg's bird is the only one who is symptomatic and this reads like it affects multiple if not all birds but the symptoms are similar.
Maybe the Roo has some form of brain or neuro infection going on?
AE had crossed my mind early on, but when I refreshed my memory of what I had read about it, I sort of canceled that avenue because of age and leg tremors.
Some neurological symptoms can be hard to nail down - there's SO many causes and conditions - from genetics, incubation issues, myco and aflotoxins to disease. Plus any contributors like worms, coccidia, secondary infections...
So what to do. Vitamin therapy is usually where I suggest starting since it's one of those things that "won't hurt". One could run a Hail Mary and see what happens - treat for most everything - Coccidiosis, deworm and give an antibiotic to see if there's improvement. Still wouldn't really know which treatment "worked" if he got better, but some give it a shot just to see.
@PegJ I'm so sorry you are facing this and I can't imagine how frustrating it must be for you right now. Do what you can. If you don't come up with anything in research and want to try a different approach, let us know. Heartbreaking. I know what it's like to have a plan in your head and then things don't come together. I had a gorgeous Heritage BR rooster I was planning on putting over a couple heritage hens. He didn't get sick, he was just so nasty to the hens, beat them up. I separated him, gave him time thinking he would grow out of it, no, he was even worse the next time and he really hurt one hen and was working on another - I killed him right there, I bawled my eyes out. What to do. I went without a rooster for a year. Thought things through and went a completely different direction with which I'm very happy with.
All this to say, sometimes things don't work out the way we want, but there's always hope and sometimes things turn out better than you expect.
I do hope he improves.
- Thread starter
- #38
PegJ
Chirping
Lost Roo yesterday. Wanted to let you wonderful people who helped me through this. I honestly had gotten to the point where I was thinking the most humane thing was to put him down. He just very slowly got worse to where he could hardly stand. It was devastating to watch. The best description I could. Give, is he resembled a friend that had severe Parkinson’s.
Thank you all for all your support! I don’t know what I’d have done without it.
Thank you all for all your support! I don’t know what I’d have done without it.
I am so sorry.
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