16-mo old BO hen internal layer? update: Paris necropsy pics (graphic)

[OrpingtonManor]

Good morning.

Paris is still resisting all efforts to get food into her. She seems a little better in the energy department, and repositioned herself during the night. She also seems much more able to walk, although her ascites makes her all wobbly so she plops down.

I gave her a bit more electrolytes this morning, which she didn't want, and mostly let drip all over me. I also gave her oatmeal with yogurt but she just kept wiping her beak on me. At least she has fight in her! I will contact Laura about the ascites when I get home from work.

The Pen G does seem to be having a positive effect, but I worry that she hasn't got enough muscle reserves in her body to handle all these injections. We fight on, and I apologize to her for not figuring this out earlier.

 

[OrpingtonManor]

Just tried to give her more electrolytes. She resisted like a mad woman. I was impressed with her energy. Yay! I am leaving her a bowl of electrolytes and oatmeal/yogurt for the day while I am at work.

 

[anothercrazychick]

Hi,

I'm new to this forum, but I was directed to your thread from another forum that I post regularly on. I didn't read all 7 pages of this thread, but I read the fist 4... and the last page (my 10 month old is throwing muffins around the kitchen so I only have a limited amount of time to get all my chicken posting done in the morning!!)

A couple of things come to mind with your hen. I suspect, as I believe has been mentioned already, that your hen was eggbound with a soft shelled egg. She was showing classic symptoms of eggbinding - draggy wings, reluctance to move and total loss of appetite. For future reference, if you see these symptoms again, give your bird 3 cc of liquid calcium (<1 if she's a bantie) and either 0.1 mg/kg metacam (orally, once per day) or 55 mg/kg aspirin (not ibuprofen or acetaminophen). Usually, a standard ~2 kg hen will take one 80 mg low-dose aspirin, but a larger hen like a brahma or an orpie will take 1.5 to 2 of the 80 mg aspirin. IF the hen is drinking, you can also put 5 (325 mg) aspirin in 4 litres of water and let her have that free choice during the day. Not a bad idea to do that for her now along with her electrolytes if she has started to drink, as she likely has some inflammation in her still. The calcium, by the way, stimulates contractions of the oviduct and will hopefully kick-start the peristalsis that needs to happen to move the egg out of the body. WHen eggbound, the egg sometimes stalls out, then inflammation sets in and compounds the eggbinding even more. That's why it's important to give the aspirin (anti inflammatory) and the calcium (stimulating peristalsis).

Now, I think that your hen had a soft shelled egg stuck inside her and it has broken, starting an infection. Did she have yellowish watery droppings? If so, that is usually an indication that the yolk etc from the egg is slowly leaking out of her, but it opens her up for a massive infection. You've done the right thing putting her on antibiotics - Pen G will work pretty good. I've used it on my birds. The dose that I got from my poultry vet, many years ago, was 30 000 IU/kg. I've used that dose on banties to broilers and it works very well. You can give it IM but also Sub-cu if she doesn't have much muscle mass anymore. ANother really good antibiotic (available through your vet) is baytril (15 mg/kg, twice a day, orally or IM) and clavamox drops.

I've probably missed a whole bunch of info that you had posted already, so let me know if I'm being repetitive or not making any sense. I must go... muffins and milk to clean up...

Laura

 

[OrpingtonManor]

Laura, thanks for finding me. I just got home from work, and have already tried to give her some electrolytes. She just won't eat at this point, but I am having limited luck in using a syringe to give her fluids.

She had another watery dropping today, pale yellow with bits of green. However, she is much perkier tonight than she has been. If she can hold out until she recovers her appetite, I think we might save her.

Where would I get liquid calcium? I don't have that, or metacam, but I could easily get some baby aspirin. (acetylsalicylic acid, got it!) She used to be a big Buff Orp, but has lost tons of weight. I'm not sure how to weigh her, but I'll give it a try. She might be ~2kg? I'll find a way to make that more accurate.

I'm hoping it's to my advantage that she is in heavy molt. Maybe her ovaries are in hibernation, but probably they're just slow. Prior to her molt, I was finding periodic shell-less eggs, and some with thin shells. One shell-less egg was in the nest box over the weekend when I found her huddled on the bottom of the coop.

I have Durvet's Penicillin G Procaine. The first dose of Pen G she got was 0.75cc because I was worried about the massiveness of the dose. Then, I decided to go ahead and give the full 1.0cc last night. I mean, if I am trying to save her, then let's go for broke. I am rotating injection sites so I don't damage her muscle tissue too much. Is that dosing okay? For the Pen G, how many cc's would I be giving if I am trying to convert from IU's?

Again, thanks for your input, and thanks to Sammi for relaying my situation to you.

ETA -- I went back and re-read my post on 300,000units/ml, so that would mean I should be giving 0.2cc for a 2kg hen. Yikes! I gave her 5 times that much last night. Still, it seemed to help. Any thoughts on how much I should give tonight? Should I stick with 1.0cc, or drop down a bit?

 

[speckledhen]

As you said, she will probably die if you don't do something major, so I'd say keep doing the 1 cc (or at least 3/4 cc) for 3-4 days tops. That saved hens here on more than one occasion suffering from egg yolk peritonitis/internal laying. I use that same penicillin you mentioned.

 

[OrpingtonManor]

That is my plan, unless someone can convince me otherwise. I like the improvement so far. If she was eating, I might think we could take a more conservative approach. Right now, she is still in crisis.

 

[anothercrazychick]

I would stick to the 30 000 IU/kg dosage. Although it's not likely going to cause a problem to double the dosage of pen g procaine, I wouldn't give 5 times the dose, as it can cause toxicity, especially in a dehydrated or acutely ill bird. So if your bird is 2 kg, she needs (30 000 IU x 2 kg) 60 000 IU. If there's 300 000 IU per ml, then she needs (60 000/300 000) 0.2 ml, which is exactly as you said. If she's getting bruised from the IM injections, give it sub cu (back of the neck works well).

If you need to get more fluids and/or food into her, then I will attach my instructions on how to tube feed. A good tube feeding formula in a pinch is baby cereal, mixed with water and a pinch of yogurt. Make it runny enough that it is easy to push through a syringe, but not so runny that the hen isn't benefitting from the cereal and is getting mostly water. Better than baby cereal is either Kaytee "exact" or tropican baby bird starter OR any type of pelleted parrot food. It is ground fine enough that you don't need to worry about plugging the syringe or feeding tube and is easier for your bird to digest as it is at least made for an avian digestive system (rather than a human one). Soak the pellets in water until they are completely soft. THen blend with a hand blender, add a raw egg and just enough water so that the mixture pushes easily through a "luer slip tip" syringe.

Instructions on tube feeding:

Go to your local pet store or aquarium supply store and pick up about a foot of air line hosing (or pick up a naso/gastric feeding tube from your vet). Also pick up a luer slip tip 60 ml syring OR catheter tip syringe (which may or may not fit the air line tubing, so you'll have to modify the tubing to slip over the tip of the syringe). Once you have these things, measure the distance from the tip of the hen's beak to the crop and mark this distance on the tube, so you'll know when you've got it in far enough. Cut the tube about 2 inches longer than this amount. Attach filled syringe (fill with water or liquid food). Open the bird's mouth and have a look inside with a flashlight/torch. At the very back of the throat, behind the tongue, there is an opening. This is called the glottis and it is the opening to the trachea, and thus, the lungs. Do NOT get the tube into this opening. Wet the tube with hot water to make it slippery and pliable, then slide the tube down the throat, on either side of the glottis. You'll know when it makes it to the crop as the mark on the tube will meet up with the tip of the hen's beak. Now, administer the fluids - slowly, but not so slowly that the hen starts to struggle. Usually it takes about 20-30 seconds to give a 60 cc syringe. An empty crop on a standard sized hen can take between 60-80 cc of fluid. Don't overfill and always keep an eye on the hen's throat to make sure that fluid isn't coming back up. If the hen has a soured crop, sometimes it can't take as much fluid, as the crop tone is so poor that the hen throws the liquid back up again. If this happens, allow the hen to drain the fluid from her mouth, then hold her head up in a normal position to allow her to swallow any excess. You don't want her to choke on the excess. This is usually not a problem so don't worry about it.

Anyway, once you're done giving the fluid from the syringe, kink the tubing so it doesn't leak as you pull it out. Remove the tube and you're done! You can repeat the feeding 2-3 times per day, or whenever the crop is empty enough to take a decent amount.


Laura

 

[OrpingtonManor]

I just weighed her. She weighs 5 lbs, as accurately as I can tell using a postal scale topped with a dustpan for a pan. At 2.2 lbs/ kg, that means she is ~2.25 kg. She should get 0.1cc for every kg, so she should get 0.225cc, within the limits of reading that syringe. I'll do my best. I wish I still had insulin syringes around.

 

[Lunachick]

Good luck Orp. I hope she pulls through for you. Sounds feisty though......you never know with some chickens............

She just may be a strong one....

 

[sammi]

Thanks Laura for your quick reply..
should she do anything for what she thinks is fluid build up?
hope you and the baby are doing great..
will contact you at the other site.

OrpingtonManor...keeping my fingers crossed for your hen and hope all this will help.