2 days to go to hatch and goose broke egg.

[chooks4life]

Lol, it's not just you, I've heard them referred to as Santa Ana on a few sites.

 

[livininbrazil]

Well, I thought about the Santa Inês because they´re common and tough and I think cheaper than the Dorper, which is available here, but is an expensive, although very good-looking, lawn-mower! My preference, though, is to increase my geese! And muscovies, too, as they all eat the grass..
.The taller grass is called braquiaria, it´s very coarse when it grows tall, but very good when it´s young shoots. Farmers plant it to keep their cattle on. The geese are down there now, cropping away at the new shoots coming up. But they also like the other native grass that is increasing due to us cutting the braquiária back. And it´s green all year, due to being partly marshland. Nice for geese and ducks!
It got a little chilly last night, down to about 8ºC,whereas it has only been getting down to about 14º, so I sneaked down with my torch to spy on the goslings, and was very pleased to see them all snug in the feathers of the goose, so that bit has been a success.
One of the 3 sisters has started to sit today. Once she´s sitting tight I´ll put a fence around her to keep others from interfering. She´s the second favourite of the other gander, so I´ll leave the gander out with his favourite and just fence in this little goose with her nest. (the favouite was the principal layer of the other lot of eggs where all three were sitting, so she´s having a rest) I´m getting more interested in goose behaviour than what types of geese they may be! lol

 

[chooks4life]

Quote: I'm also far more interested in behavior, genetic interplay, and hardiness than maintaining different breeds, so I get that.

Good to hear the geese are doing well.
Quote: White Dorpers I wouldn't touch with a long stick, lol... I both hear of and see some serious faults in that breed. Black face/neck Dorpers seem ok, but in Africa and a few other countries (Australia, UK) they reckon that of all sheep breeds, Dorpers have strong wanderlust and disrespect for fences. In Africa they make a joke: "if you buy a herd of Dorpers and bring them home, drop them off at a neighbor's a couple of places away from yours. In the next few days they'll end up on your place". Of course, keeping them on your place once they get there is another issue. They're powerful and don't mind breaking fences.

But my biggest issue with them is the unwise breeding behind the whites; some of them show serious deformity, but when breeders are focused on weight gain only they often don't pay attention to that, unfortunately. I don't know how to describe it, except to say they're breeding the back legs off them in pursuit of body length. The body is the same length as ever but where the back legs ought to be, you see the parts of the flanks and loin normally covered by haunches; and further back there's the hind legs, practically joined to the tail rather than the body. Sometimes breeders take shortcuts which seem to produce the same results as desired but which are in fact missteps. Many genes contribute to each characteristic, but many of them have other characteristics which accompany them and which have negative attributes. Anyone taking the shortcut in breeding to achieve a result in the shortest possible timeframe is going to breed on bad things as well, since you can't guarantee what you haven't seen and it takes a while for all faults to show.

Aussie White Dorpers have a high incidence of scoliosis of the spine, which may not apply to those in your country, and rarely applies to Blacks. But many Aussie animals of many breeds and species have horribly bent and twisted spines, now that many modern breeders place low importance on what is a serious genetic and ethical issue. Spinal scoliosis causes terrible and continual suffering, but both animals and humans with it tend to soldier on looking just fine.

Anyway, that's just my opinion on Dorpers, which may be the right choice for you, for all I know. Due to their physical type they're good lawnmowers since they've got a lot of growing to do, but personally I prefer more sound and stable animals... But, again, they may be fine in your country. Although I must say, the Santa Ines breed could do with more proponents, from what I hear. Worth preserving as opposed to a breed which is globally common. But then again, who knows, maybe your country has a very good strain of Dorpers that are also worth preserving... And then again maybe you're not going to breed them at all! lol, perhaps I speculate overly much.

All the best.

 

[livininbrazil]

Hi Chooks4life, I do enjoy reading your posts. Thanks on the info on Dorpers. In general, Brazilians are beef-eaters, few eat lamb, but the number is growing, so the number of people who rear sheep is growing, and Dorper is getting popular for meat. What you´ve said about their natures has put me off. Funny what the Africans say. I don´t think I want that.

As yet I´ve not seen any deformed ones here, but what a shame that this is happening. Maybe the Santa Inês would make a good companion sheep for the geese, then! It´s much closer to a natural sheep, hair included! Isn´t it a shame when people breed animals to the point of deformity?

 

[chooks4life]

Yes, it sure it a shame, when profits trumps ethics. I would expect that if Brazil hasn't received any recent imports then their Dorpers are probably of decent stock. The older type wasn't so bad. Your experiences with them might not bear any resemblance to what I've noted here, so don't let me put you off. But having said that I am a definite fan of hair sheep. My current sheep is a Damara mix and I quite like this breed, and the other breeds which are of the same type.

It's also nice to hear my often overlong posts are enjoyable rather than a nuisance, lol! All the best.

 

[livininbrazil]

Anything informative is never a nuisance! And how hard a road it is to learn without anyone else´s experience!
Re: Dorpers.... There´s a young lass in our town whose dad has business in farming, and he´s set her up with a business in rearing Dorper sheep. She was putting out to see if local farmers would have set number of her sheep on their land to rear,and then they´d get a percentage back when it came to butchering time. Well, of course here we couldn´t do that, we don´t haev enough space, but it made me think about the dorper. I believe her breeding stock was from Africa. But I´m all for things natural, don´t like breeding things to become monsters or deformed. I used to be in the dog-breeding and exhibition world, and think that some dog breeds have got lost along the way. So I have quite strong views about breeding deformities in dogs, farm animals and poultry too. Here dwarf ("mini") cattle are becoming more popular. They just have squitty legs which doesn´t help them get around on rough terrain or get out of marshes. I already upset some on the Brahma thread because of what I perceive to be extreme width of head of some birds, oops! So, my geese are graceful, and can fly a bit if they want to, my turkeys can run, fly and breed, and maybe the sheep will be Santa Inês or similar. There, experience from others helps along the way. Thanks

 

[chooks4life]

Quote: I have much of the same opinion on breeding on deformities. Only in a small percentage of cases are deformities not a concern, i.e. silkies have a few deformities which would have been serious concerns for hundreds of years into the development of the breed, but after over a thousand years, the worst aspects of the breed's specific deformities are nullified or bred out.

I like miniature cattle, but only the natural sort, not large cattle which have been bred smaller recently. Most cattle are descended from naturally small species and some naturally small breeds still exist (not dwarfed or quickly bred to be small). True miniature cattle have proportionate legs and bodies and heads. I see a lot of bad examples though and know what you mean. More like sausage dogs than proper bovines. As for Brahma chickens, or any breed of any animal, there are and will always be some genetic weakness or negative trends to combat, and it's unfortunate people were offended. I don't like the squinty eye appearance of some Brahmas, having seen a few facial and skull deformities in chicken breeds that are similar. I would mistrust that trait in my own birds. Excessive width of skull... Well, as someone who has been involved in the dog breeds world, you know where that ends up, no doubt. Sometimes the skull splits in two when that trait is inbred with.

I'm currently interested in learning about and possibly obtaining some exotic species to farm; gaur, bateng, eland, nilgai, possibly kudu, and bongo, in terms of the bovine family and its relatives. Most of them suit the vast uninhabited outback environment. Not only are they viable livestock in the right circumstances, but they could really do with more people weeding out negative inbred traits which have cropped up in both captive and wild lines. I wouldn't intensively farm or select for any traits that natural selection does not favor; they don't need breeding up for milk or meat production. Sometimes I think I should just get the necessary qualifications to apply for a job overseeing a zoo studbook, lol! I seem to be able to spot a lot of genetic problems fairly well. Some zoo stock are in desperate need of a tighter hand on the studbook... I'm quite judgmental of inbred animals and negative genetics. We're leaving these limited gene pools for our offspring, and it should be considered an inheritance like any other. I am particularly concerned about Blue Belgian cattle. Since it's such an overdone and faulty gene, with multiple fatal expressions, they're breeding them into a slimmer form; this will soon enough become indistinguishable from normal cattle, and the lethal genes will spread throughout the other breeds. They're outcrossing the mutated beasts all over the place. It's terrible and short sighted.
Quote: Very true. We stop learning when we think we know enough, but nobody knows it all, and nobody is the consummate expert. If I had a dollar for every time I've been told I must take as a golden rule someone's opinion just because they've been doing "X" for "X" many years... lol. No matter how experienced I get I know someone with even less experience will often have something to teach me. (Not that I consider myself very experienced at all, because I'm not).
Quote: I have the same stance on it. If they can't survive in a fairly natural environment, can't breed without assistance, and don't stand a chance of escaping predators, then they're not genetically viable --- not worth passing on to our descendants. Not to mention that they're not really living the life their type is meant to. I don't think intensive factory farming is going to live far into the future, since the health downsides which the animals suffer, and which in turn causes human suffering, don't justify the saving of a few dollars per animal due to scrimping over health.

 

[livininbrazil]

What an interesting post. It made me smile to think about sausage-dog cows! Our neighbour has what is supposed to be a mini-cow, she´s very strange to look at; she has a very big head and short legs with a short but very round body, she looks continually in calf! In fact, she had a calf and no-one knew she was expecting one! Then there´s another mini-cow a little way away from us, which is small and dainty, small body, legs, all in proportion. Quite sweet.
The bovines that you mention are mostly from Africa, aren´t they? Sounds a very interesting project, you seem to have a wide view of things. Are there many of these animals where you live? Are they already farmed? I don´t know! I certainly don´t see them here, nor did I see them much in England, only in zoos.
And as regards learning from less experienced ones, it´s so true! If we share our experiences we´ll all benefit from it, like another thread about Vit B3 for goslings. all useful info. And thanks for your experience, too.

Have fun with your zoo! What a lot of journals you´ll have!!

 

[livininbrazil]

p.s. the undergoose is due to hatch her eggs from tomorrow (day 28), so far so good..........She´s in her own pen which is inside the goose enclosure, and she has 6 eggs. I´ve not candled them, but I expect some will hatch. The little family is free-range now, the tiny one has turned a month old, and at night they all sit up as close as poss to the fence where the undergoose is sitting! But I´ll keep her in her pen (it´s a big one) until the goslings are 3 or 4 weeks, then they can all go around together. here´s hoping........

 

[RURU]

Do your eggs hatch that early? Our Sebastopol's take 30 days. We stop turning at 27 days so they sit in one position for 3 days to get ready to hatch.
Good luck on the hatch!