3-day-old chicks, stuff on butts (pics+new pix) -- UPDATE: 2 deaths :(

[concernedaboutchick]

OK: updates.

First, last night I went out and bought an 8 oz. bag of Durvet Vitamins & Electrolytes, a bottle of Bragg's Organic Unfiltered Apple Cider Vinegar, a pack of Stonyfield Organic Probiotic Fat-Free Yogurt (French Vanilla), a box of raw oatmeal and some eggs for the crumbled up boiled egg yolk.

For starters I put a small bit of the Durvet Vitamins/Electrolytes in their 1-quart waterers...I found a bunch of warnings online about how too much would kill them so I just put a pinch in, probably 1/10th of a teaspoon if I had to guess. I boiled an egg and crumbled up the boiled egg yolk and put it in the two brooders...the 14 healthy chicks seemed to love it in their brooder and the 2 pasty butt chicks mostly ignored it in theirs. I also sprinkled the raw oatmeal over the feed dishes in both brooders. I wasn't sure about whether or not I should put the apple cider vinegar in their waterers since the durvet vitamins/electrolytes were *also* in there and I also wasn't sure about what to do with the yogurt exactly so I didn't use either at the time.

Next, I took out the two chicks with pasty butt and photographed their butts with a friend's borrowed macro lens to post on here. The photos were taken about 12 hours after the original photos in the first post of this thread, and about 3 hours after having washed them off with warm water and q-tips/toilet paper/paper towels. Neither of them had any of the clumps of poo on their rears anymore, but as you can tell, neither of their rears looked healthy either...I was in the middle of uploading the pictures to ask about what their current status looked like and what to do about it when I fell asleep on accident since it was so late at that point. Anyway, if I could still get any opinions on that, it would be great...here are the pictures (click for full size):

The first pasty butt chick


The second pasty butt chick


After taking the pictures I washed their butts off a little more with q-tips and warm water as best I could and then put them back in their separate brooder and gave them fresh food and water. Then I checked each of the other 14 chicks individually to see if they had the same problem...4 of them seemed to have a bit of it, but not anywhere as bad as the other 2. I washed off the 4 that sort-of had it anyway though and then put them back in their brooder. I also photographed them to post on here since I wasn't sure if what they had would be considered pasty butt as well or just normal poo. Here are the pictures, pre-cleaning, with the chicks labeled #1 through #4:



I fell asleep at my computer chair and woke up the next morning and they all seemed to be doing the same as the night before. I was late for work so I didn't have too much time to check though, unfortunately. When I got home (about 30 minutes ago) and checked again, I found that one of them had died. It was one of the two bantams with pasty butt in the separate brooder...I took it out and all appeared normal except for a little more poo on its rear. I then took the second bantam out of the separate brooder and photographed it to post here...here is the 2nd one as of about 30 mins ago (24 hrs after above pics, 36 hrs after original first pics):



I cleaned his butt off with a q-tip as best as I could but there wasn't a lot to get out. Still, it doesn't look very healthy, and I'm very concerned since his buddy died while I was at work...

So, I guess to sum up my questions:
1. What's wrong with the current remaining pasty-butt bantam? There's not much poo there, but it still doesn't look good.
2. What can I do about him? Anything else besides what I've been doing?
3. Can I put him back in with the rest of the chicks in the other brooder?
4. The other 4 chicks I took pictures of...would you consider that to be pasty butt as well?
5. Is the yogurt I bought okay to use? It was as close to "plain" yogurt as I could find...here's a link to the kind I bought
6. Should I put the apple cider vinegar in their waterers if the durvet vitamins/electrolytes are also in there? And is 1 teaspoon a good amount of the ACV for a 1 quart waterer?

All help or advice would be much appreciated...sorry for the length of this post, I tend to get overly worried and concerned about these things

 

[mediazeal]

I would go back to regular water right now
NO oatmeal, they are too young and can not digest it yet
if you have already given them oatmeal, get some CHICK Grit, not chicken grit
Chick grit is much finer
my feed store has it, not all do. parakeet grit has too much calicum

The crumbled egg is a good extra food and like yogurt does not require grit but not to replace the medicated start and grow crumbles
pasty butt reoccurs on stressed chicks so clean as often as you can/see it

If it is pasty butt only and you caught it in time, you shoudl see good improvement
since you had one die,I would put a stuffed toy in with the 1 chick and give it another 24 hours to be sure they are healthy before putting them back with the others.

a little egg a day is good, alot is probably not
oatmeal is not good at this age
the vitamins could help but dosage is important, so just water is also ok
cleaning the butts (as often as needed), enough warmth and no drafts is what is going to clear this up

sorry for your loss and good luck with the others!

 

[mediazeal]

the yogurt you bought is ok, just choose between egg or yogurt for the day
you want them to eat the crumbles

just keep the opening clear so the poop can come out and if it is pasty butt they will not die
the clogged up problem is what will kill them

the one that died may have had help too late and had internal damage
don't know

 

[honeydoll]

I see some blood on their vents? If so, is their poo bloody? Have you noticed that. I know if their blocked up you may not have seen much poo, but could their be a cocidiosis(sp.?) as well. I know the vent could be bloody from being raw too, just something you may want to think of.

 

[concernedaboutchick]

The last time they had the egg yolk was last night, so I'll try mixing some yogurt in with their food tonight. Should 1/2 teaspoon mixed in with 1/2 cup of food be good?

I won't use the vitamin stuff since it's too tricky to figure out the dosage...but should I use the apple cider vinegar instead? Or just regular water with nothing in it?

Another question I forgot...I had pine shavings originally but found out the night before the chicks arrived that they were toxic, so I had to go and buy aspen shavings last night (Hartz LM Animal Farms brand, if that makes a difference). I'm planning on putting the aspen shavings in tomorrow morning and then fresh paper towels on top of them for a few days...should that be alright, or would it cause problems?

enough warmth and no drafts is what is going to clear this up

I have a slightly open window in the room they're in because it tends to get very dusty and stuffy, making it hard (at least for me) to breathe...I was thinking of putting a fan with a furnace filter on back in front of the window (sucking the air from the room, blowing out the window) to keep the dust down even more but if that would cause more drafts I won't do it. The chicks are down on the ground and the fan/window are about 4.5 feet up if it makes a difference.

As for the heat, the heat lamp they've got keeps it between 90 and 95. I do notice that they all tend to huddle in the corner that the heat lamp points at the most though, so it might need to be hotter. I'm still wary because the wildlife rehab woman I talked to said it was probably overheating that did this to them in the first place, so I don't want to make it *too* hot for them in there.​

 

[concernedaboutchick]

Quote:
I haven't noticed any bloody poo yet...I think it may just be from being raw...at least that's what I'm hoping.
They're all on medicated chick starter and were vaccinated before being mailed, just in case.

 

[concernedaboutchick]

An update...the other one just died

I had cleaned him off less than 2 hours ago, had dipped his beak in the water, made sure he had food, everything...but when I walked in just now he was on his side, not moving.

The other 14 seem to be doing okay...I noticed minor cases of pasty butt on 3 of them which I cleaned off. I really hope this doesn't happen to the rest of them as well...

 

[mediazeal]

Quote:
I have a slightly open window in the room they're in because it tends to get very dusty and stuffy, making it hard (at least for me) to breathe...I was thinking of putting a fan with a furnace filter on back in front of the window (sucking the air from the room, blowing out the window) to keep the dust down even more but if that would cause more drafts I won't do it. The chicks are down on the ground and the fan/window are about 4.5 feet up if it makes a difference.

As for the heat, the heat lamp they've got keeps it between 90 and 95. I do notice that they all tend to huddle in the corner that the heat lamp points at the most though, so it might need to be hotter. I'm still wary because the wildlife rehab woman I talked to said it was probably overheating that did this to them in the first place, so I don't want to make it *too* hot for them in there.

95 is the right heat for them the first week
just make sure the brooder is big enough that they can move to the edges of the light if it is too hot
if they are in the center and still shivering
they may be too cold

You are doing what you can
95 degree heat with room to move away from it
no drafts
medicated start & grow
clean their butts off often, apply a tiny bit of olive oil to soothe and make it harder for anything to stick
pine shavings are not toxic
CEDAR shavings are toxic
you can put the sick chick on paper towel though if you are worried that is part of it

I use horse bedding pine pellets (not the ones that go in your stove)
less dust, less smell but more expensive

 

[concernedaboutchick]

Small update: I mixed in 1/2 teaspoon of the yogurt with 1/2 cup of their food and mixed in 1 teaspoon of apple cider vinegar in with their quart of water and put them in the brooder with the 14 remaining chicks...here's hoping it will help, or at least not hurt...

 

[mediazeal]

so sorry for your losses
hang in there