4 day old chick wants to peck it's mother's eye.

[subhanalah]

Not in my experience. The very few chicks I've had that pecked at eyes stopped after three or so pecks, and all the adults ever did was close their eye or move their head away. About 95% never pecked at eyes. Those that did came from high production breeds.

Baby chickens from less intensively farmed ancestry either never peck at eyes or stop of their own accord, as their instincts are more intact, more natural, and direct them to begin exhibiting normal behaviors from hatching onwards. Whereas baby chickens from intensively farmed ancestry, as I mentioned before, are known to commence cannibalism straight from hatching onwards, and as a rule not as an exception, not driven by malnourishment; it's just what their instincts are directing them to do. They view their own kind as food.

It's an instinctual aberration we bred into them. When a normal baby chicken hatches, it begins pecking at objects on the nest floor, not it's mother's face, from its earliest hours. One of the first things it eats are particles of its own eggshell; its instincts tell it to seek things on the ground to eat. Normal baby chickens don't have this confusion about eyes as food sources. Just like wild birds; can you imagine a world where wild birds ran the risk of losing their eyes to their own chicks? There would be much less in the way of wild birds. But that's unheard of; wild birds do not have this trait of pecking at their parent's eyes, or need to be taught not to.

When an abnormal baby chicken hatches, its warped instincts tell it to seek nourishment from the eyeballs, feet, and bodies of its own kind, not seek it elsewhere like on the ground. It will often ignore nourishment from elsewhere to continue to attempt to consume its own kind. You can spot these in a normal flock, walking around fixated on the eyes of their own kind, or whatever body part they are predisposed to attack and consume. These are not learned behaviors in the individuals exhibiting them, and they cannot be unlearned. They were gradually bred into them. They can be bred out over generations if you prevent the animals acting on them, but a dormant behavior is still genetically viable, so just because you prevent them acting on it does not mean they won't breed it on. You have to stop them acting on it for many generations and breed the least inclined in order to breed it out.

This is actually why we have cannibalism in the first place. Cannibalistic hens who were good layers were debeaked, and/or had spectacles and red lights etc applied to stop them, but were still bred, not culled. They were stopped from acting on it, but still bred, and so passed on their incorrect instincts, because natural selection dictates that any animal surviving to breeding age should pass on its traits because they served it well enough to enable its survival. Hence, they are viable and successful traits, even if only within abnormal environments we keep them in.

This isn't some random, abstract idea, it's been proven in studies, and some breeds are noted as being heavily genetically predisposed to cannibalism, and it is not caused by malnourishment, though in cannibalism-prone breeds that can trigger it...

But, again, in non-cannibalistic breeds, malnourishment does not trigger cannibalism. They starve instead.

Cannibalism is something you can breed in, or out, over as little as 5 to 7 generations, depending on how you keep them, what diet you keep them on, and the all important aspect of which birds, exhibiting which behaviors, you choose to breed on.

Best wishes.

so when picking out chicks, avoid the ones who are trying to eat their siblings, and if you ever have babies hatch that do this, cull, do not breed them.

 

[bobbi-j]

so when picking out chicks, avoid the ones who are trying to eat their siblings, and if you ever have babies hatch that do this, cull, do not breed them.

Yes... Once they've eaten their siblings, watch out - you don't want to stop moving when you're anywhere near them!

I honestly wouldn't worry too much about it. I'm still of the opinion that that chick is just inquisitive, and if the mama loses an eye, I wouldn't ever let her breed or hatch out anymore chicks because you don't want one that can't protect herself from her babies.

 

[Eggcessive]

I had some banty chicks from TSC once, and a little OEG chick was pecking her 5 brooder mates. I took her out and put her back and she did it to everyone, and wouldn't stop. So she got put in isolation for the night, and the next morning when she was put back in, she never did this again. She is now my most tame and sweet chicken at 2 years of age.

 

[chooks4life]

What I was saying was baby chicks peck at *everything* in a inquisitive or investigative way. If they're cannibalistly trying to eat each other's eyeballs out in an agressive or hostile way I wouldn't call that TCB.

Ah, fair enough, I mistook what you were saying because of the reference to 'malnourished cannibals'.

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Yes, that's the simplest and fastest way to deal with cannibalism.

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Lol! Cannibalism in chickens is only ever a threat to you if you're a chicken. But acting hysterical would be one way to get any predatory-minded meat-eater to have a closer look at you, so I certainly don't advise it.

Personally, I wouldn't want to get wounded around the majority of chickens, they would definitely tuck into your guts and organs if given a chance.

The only real problem with keeping cannibalistic chickens is that they cost you money and time, because you're paying to feed an animal which is stressing and damaging and even killing the others and eating parts of them as well, and will only ever breed more of the same. It's a fool's errand, really.

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Yeah, there are a few stories like that I've heard, it's certainly not unheard of. In the individual's lifetime the behavior can become dormant, but the real test of how strong a trait it is will be in breeding them, and the results will be shown by that individual's offspring.

I had some birds with a slight cannibalistic bent whose previous parents had never shown it, it does take a while to breed out. You may have gotten one that was already a few generations removed from the worst offenders.

Best wishes to all.

 

[bobbi-j]

Lol! Cannibalism in chickens is only ever a threat to you if you're a chicken. But acting hysterical would be one way to get any predatory-minded meat-eater to have a closer look at you, so I certainly don't advise it.

Whew! I feel so much better now!

Personally, I wouldn't want to get wounded around the majority of chickens, they would definitely tuck into your guts and organs if given a chance.

I'd have to agree with you there. No sitting faithfully by your side or going for help like a good dog would do. Nope, it'd be all over. The little veliciraptors would have you gone before you knew it!

The only real problem with keeping cannibalistic chickens is that they cost you money and time, because you're paying to feed an animal which is stressing and damaging and even killing the others and eating parts of them as well, and will only ever breed more of the same. It's a fool's errand, really.

I have never had a cannibalistic chicken. Got them from hatcheries for years and years. You are right, though. You don't want to keep one if you had one. Keep culling them out of the flock and they won't be a problem.

Best wishes to all.

 

[chooks4life]

Quote: Yeah, definitely true for probably the majority of chickens, they're fierce. Like piranhas or velociraptors, lol, we used to joke that they were little T-rex's.

This bit about the dogs reminded me of a nice old fellow we used to know, deceased now, who had advanced cancer by the time we got to know him. He used to round up his 30-odd ornery cows by horse and dog, the silly things always made it hard on him and wouldn't come to the sheds to get milked, and he'd hand milk the lot of them every day twice a day...

Anyway, he had a few episodes where he collapsed and couldn't get up, and as we lived down the road, we used to check in on him, and so we'd soon know if he'd fallen somewhere and we'd go search his paddocks. He had three dogs, and they were worse than unhelpful to him. They waited around him, not going for help (fair enough, that one) but the bit that really surprised me was that when we came out to help him, (had to get an ambulance trolley and all because of his physical state, and then had to help the ambos because neither of those guys were physically able to lift a frail old man, makes you wonder why they were doing that job at all)... his dogs began biting his legs and arms as people moved him, and biting the people that were moving him too. Loyal and intelligent dogs are great, but some dogs, though fairly loyal, are just liabilities.

Regarding hatcheries, as far as I know most hatcheries these days are careful to some extent about cannibalism. You're still more likely to get cannibals from mass producing hatcheries selling high-production breeds, but much less likely than was once the case. As far as I know anyway. I've seen a lot of total crap come out of hatcheries and some quite good looking birds too. No two hatcheries are equal it seems.

Best wishes.

 

[bobbi-j]

Yeah, definitely true for probably the majority of chickens, they're fierce. Like piranhas or velociraptors, lol, we used to joke that they were little T-rex's.

This bit about the dogs reminded me of a nice old fellow we used to know, deceased now, who had advanced cancer by the time we got to know him. He used to round up his 30-odd ornery cows by horse and dog, the silly things always made it hard on him and wouldn't come to the sheds to get milked, and he'd hand milk the lot of them every day twice a day...

Anyway, he had a few episodes where he collapsed and couldn't get up, and as we lived down the road, we used to check in on him, and so we'd soon know if he'd fallen somewhere and we'd go search his paddocks. He had three dogs, and they were worse than unhelpful to him. They waited around him, not going for help (fair enough, that one) but the bit that really surprised me was that when we came out to help him, (had to get an ambulance trolley and all because of his physical state, and then had to help the ambos because neither of those guys were physically able to lift a frail old man, makes you wonder why they were doing that job at all)... his dogs began biting his legs and arms as people moved him, and biting the people that were moving him too. Loyal and intelligent dogs are great, but some dogs, though fairly loyal, are just liabilities.

I've been an EMT for 27 years, and fortunately have never had to deal with over protective dogs. Law enforcement usually arrives before us and makes sure the dogs are secured in another room or kennel.

Regarding hatcheries, as far as I know most hatcheries these days are careful to some extent about cannibalism. You're still more likely to get cannibals from mass producing hatcheries selling high-production breeds, but much less likely than was once the case. As far as I know anyway. I've seen a lot of total crap come out of hatcheries and some quite good looking birds too. No two hatcheries are equal it seems.

I can't argue with you about cannibalistic hatchery birds, although I have not had that experience.

Best wishes.