PS. My brother still made a very good point.
6 month old rooster- new raging hormones or true signs of an aggressive bird...
- Thread starter bbecca
- Start date
Nope. It will not kill a rooster to hold him upside down...even for a long while.
If it were only that easy no one would have to figure out a way to get a chicken dead.
Nine out of ten "aggressive roosters" are not born, they are made...of that I've become convinced. Many, many roosters over many, many years and I've never seen or experienced an aggressive rooster....all different breeds and sources. I can only conclude it's the owner of the bird that creates the bird's behaviors. Petting, holding, hand feeding all served to imprint a young male, confusing him about the human's role in his life.
To answer the question in the title...no, he's not truly an aggressive bird, he just got a bad start in life and now has sexual maturity to contend with on top of that. Yes, there is still a chance he could be schooled to act like a normal rooster but it will depend on an attitude adjustment in the owners if that will ever actually happen. Do you love him enough to work with him and try to change his mind? is the question.
Nine out of ten "aggressive roosters" are not born, they are made...of that I've become convinced. Many, many roosters over many, many years and I've never seen or experienced an aggressive rooster....all different breeds and sources. I can only conclude it's the owner of the bird that creates the bird's behaviors. Petting, holding, hand feeding all served to imprint a young male, confusing him about the human's role in his life.
To answer the question in the title...no, he's not truly an aggressive bird, he just got a bad start in life and now has sexual maturity to contend with on top of that. Yes, there is still a chance he could be schooled to act like a normal rooster but it will depend on an attitude adjustment in the owners if that will ever actually happen. Do you love him enough to work with him and try to change his mind? is the question.
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- Thread starter
- #23
@Beekissed I do love him enough to work with him. But I am a bit confused, soo many on here say that to have a nice rooster you have to handle and hold them every day starting from when they're chicks. So I've listened to that advice but apparently it's not the right way to go. So I've been trying to listen to everyone's wonderful suggestions on this question and have changed my attitude on how I deal with the flock. do you have any other specific suggestions?
chippy99th
Chirping
It is definitely tough to try and take everyone's conflicting suggestions. People have different opinions because they (and their roosters) have different personalities. Two people could take the same exact tip and carry it out differently, with different body language etc. and two different roosters would react differently.
I have found that it's all well and good to hold very young roosters, but around puberty you have to back off on the buddy-buddy stuff and form a business relationship. The first couple roosters we raised literally chased kids up a tree because we thought that holding and cuddling them as babies would automatically translate to being nice as adults. (We rehomed them, btw, but that doesn't mean you have to.)
Next rooster was a feral that came to us as an adult. Lo and behold, the chicken that had grown up wary of humans was in no hurry to attack one! That was when we realized that becoming too friendly with a rooster can cause him to lose respect for you.
So now when we raise roosters, once they get to that teenage/young adult age, we quit holding them and leave them alone (not if they're misbehaving, but other wise we ignore them). The roosters we currently have -that first feral gentleman and his sons -have without exception turned out sweet as can be towards hens, politely curious and respectful towards humans, and only one has been aggressive to other roosters.
They are very much used to us being around and even like peeking in the back door. But they are not fond of being held, and I think (at least for roosters that are managing a flock) it has to be that way. The combination of high status and being too familiar with you will lead to problems.
That's my two cents, anyway. I love and adore my roos but (with the exception of the silkie) they are working animals, not pets.
Edited to add: I really liked azygous's post a page back (post # 12 I think). Yeah, interfering with mating = telling him off for doing his job. That should only be done if the hen is being actually injured. Otherwise he'll just think you're not letting him manage his own flock.
I have found that it's all well and good to hold very young roosters, but around puberty you have to back off on the buddy-buddy stuff and form a business relationship. The first couple roosters we raised literally chased kids up a tree because we thought that holding and cuddling them as babies would automatically translate to being nice as adults. (We rehomed them, btw, but that doesn't mean you have to.)
Next rooster was a feral that came to us as an adult. Lo and behold, the chicken that had grown up wary of humans was in no hurry to attack one! That was when we realized that becoming too friendly with a rooster can cause him to lose respect for you.
So now when we raise roosters, once they get to that teenage/young adult age, we quit holding them and leave them alone (not if they're misbehaving, but other wise we ignore them). The roosters we currently have -that first feral gentleman and his sons -have without exception turned out sweet as can be towards hens, politely curious and respectful towards humans, and only one has been aggressive to other roosters.
They are very much used to us being around and even like peeking in the back door. But they are not fond of being held, and I think (at least for roosters that are managing a flock) it has to be that way. The combination of high status and being too familiar with you will lead to problems.
That's my two cents, anyway. I love and adore my roos but (with the exception of the silkie) they are working animals, not pets.
Edited to add: I really liked azygous's post a page back (post # 12 I think). Yeah, interfering with mating = telling him off for doing his job. That should only be done if the hen is being actually injured. Otherwise he'll just think you're not letting him manage his own flock.
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When referencing the "soooooo many", just make sure you find out how many years experience they have with chickens and roosters before believing what they have to say. On BYC it's a pretty common problem of the blind leading the blind and both falling in the pit.
I'll copy and paste similar advice I've given on another post...just too long to type it all again...this may or may not be applicable to your situation, but the training is the same. I'll preface it with the information most newbies aren't going to like to hear...roosters don't want to be your friend, nor do they want or crave your physical affection. They just want to be a rooster and if you let them be that without inflicting your human desires for shared physical affection, you've shown him more affection than you ever could feeding him treats, holding him, carrying him and petting him. Give him his space and expect him to give you your own space and, maybe, just maybe you can form a relationship of mutual respect for one another.
But, first, you need to help him get past all the confusion you've created by imprinting him....I'd venture to say that most can get past it, a rare few never will.
Quote:
Hope this helps! Feel free to ask any questions for clarity.
This below is something posted in a thread about three years ago. Still reasonable accurate.
To give credibility to what I write. Much of my background involves game fowl (fighting chickens) but I also keep at least fifty American Dominiques and as a kid my family commercially produced hatching eggs for a chicken hatchery that sold to just about everyone interested in backyard / farmyard chickens. Generally, I have more roosters than most backyard people have chickens in total and that is when my flock size is at its lowest in early spring. My games need to be easy to handle because it is done a lot. My Dominiques need to be easy to because they are supposed to be. I also use my birds for educating the public and most of my contacts are kids and some of those are very young. Finally I always have at least one flock that free-ranges around house and others that free-range in adjoining pasture. Almost all male game fowl are confined with the exception of one around house and those on walks. My very small kids intermingle with the flock that free-ranges around house and 4-year-old harem master is intact with respect to spurs. I also have been around chickens for well over 40 years.
Below are aggression categories as I recognize them. Each is defined with description of aggressive behavior. I also think maturation process needs to introduced to discussion where the term ”rooster” is avoided. Also, many of the forms of aggression below are not exclusively the realm of males.
1) Is he just running over, pecking / flogging then running to a safe distance to deny your counter attack and simply watching you?
Bird has associated such behavior with a reward. In most instances I have seen the bird has obtained food faster or in larger amounts by engaging in some behavior directed at you. This is frequently realized with brooder reared birds interacting with you as feeders are armed or eats otherwise become more evident with you present. Another situation is where birds work their basic tendency to try and get at the most attractive food which to them often involves it appearing fresh within their field of view. For me that can involve putting feed out from a bucket as feeding a flock of hungry birds. They rush after you pushing each and sometimes in the excitement the bucket or even you. Many people see such behavior and promptly put feed out for the apparently famished bird. It takes very little for bird to associate intense response with getting more or faster.
Prevention: Avoid rewarding exploratory behavior such as pecking and jumping up for food. Make so food reward is delayed relative to your activity around birds. My favorite technique is apply feed either when birds are asleep or foraging elsewhere. With latter you just call birds in after feed is applied.
Correction: Move about flock / bird even with feed but do not give feed out until bird looses interest.
Benefits of Behavior to You or Bird: I manipulate this behavior train birds for experiments and interacting positively with the public. Behavior promoted simply does not involve what a person would see as aggression. Smart birds are really prone to this.
2) Is he standing his ground and flaring his hackles and interspersing this with outright attacks with spurs, wings and bill?
He is outright fighting you for rank and treats you as a conspecific. Based on most discussions this the assumed by keepers of man-fighters. Something is or has gone on that got him into mindset that you need to be and can be defeated so as to be a subordinate. Somewhere along the line you got too familiar with him and / or he learned through exploratory pecking he can make you retreat. This is particularly prevalent with folks that are uncomfortable around their birds. Even many experienced keepers are afraid of their birds for one reason or another and sometimes these people are prone to act aggressively against the birds and even bully them. This situation is more frequent than you might suspect and denial is often a part of the problem. Folks like this may need to visit with the equivalent of Alcohol Anonymous to work problem out. I have even seen people into gamefowl that are scared of their birds and they would be ready to fight you if you said they were such. Males in particular will take advantage of activities that make them feel tough. This is where genetics can also impact predisposition for man-fighting.
Prevention: Do not retreat from him when exploratory pecking or even flogging occurs. Do not attack him in response to an attack as it is very difficult to do so with appearing to alternate between bouts of attack and retreat like which occurs when birds fight.
Correction: Make so aggressive bird can engage you by fighting you but do nothing that would be interpreted as fighting back or retreating. Let him wail away (flog) which may last several minutes. If he breaks off attack, then move towards him but do not even give him the respect of eye contact. Do not strike or push him. Repeat until he stops. Process may need to be repeated in subsequent days with hardheaded birds. You want him to start thinking of you as something that is very much not another chicken. This may mean a flannel shirt or sweat shirt and jeans. Ideally you will appear the same as you do on other days so he does not test you for days when you are weak. If spurs are an issue which they can be with birds more than 18 months old, then they can be neutralized by removal, trimming or covering with the equivalent of boxing gloves (most laymen will not have last option owing to legal restrictions). An alternative to this approach can involve the restraint / time-out sessions where bird does not get the release associated with combat but does get a penalty he will learn to avoid. This technique does appear to work although it takes more time and is hard on birds that are flighty and prone to panic when restrained which is a form of stress.
Benefits of Behavior to You or Bird: Can be used to help sell a gamerooster to a fool. In a competitive breeding setting such as in a commercial flock more aggressive birds garner more fertilizations of eggs therefore tend to be more prolific. This not directly related to what is referred to as gameness in gamefowl.
3) Is he attacking while fluffed up like a hen making lots of noises and moving about in a very fussy manner? This if often associated with roosters where members of his harem (hen(s) or offspring) are scared. Many roosters, especially games will attack whatever they see as the threat and sometimes, real or not, that can be you. His response will be in trying to repel you. Rooster may also get touchy when new feathers are coming in during molt.
Prevention: Be careful around birds, especially when hens or chicks are involved. Avoid grabbing birds during daylight. Get birds to move voluntarily. Any rooster is easier to work with when his charges are calmer so always having all birds tame helps immensely. One crazy hen can stir up a male. I always manage for calm birds and that means starting from before hatch of an individual. Be careful when handling birds, especially during molt.
Correction: Frequent low intensity interactions without stirring anyone up reduces sensitivity to your activities.
Benefits of Behavior to You or Bird: Such behavior can increase survival of males offspring which can benefit you. This especially with small predators a male can repel or distract.
Culling can also be employed, but some parties will, as a function of their husbandry technique, be culling a lot of birds that would not be problematic for most poultry keepers.
To give credibility to what I write. Much of my background involves game fowl (fighting chickens) but I also keep at least fifty American Dominiques and as a kid my family commercially produced hatching eggs for a chicken hatchery that sold to just about everyone interested in backyard / farmyard chickens. Generally, I have more roosters than most backyard people have chickens in total and that is when my flock size is at its lowest in early spring. My games need to be easy to handle because it is done a lot. My Dominiques need to be easy to because they are supposed to be. I also use my birds for educating the public and most of my contacts are kids and some of those are very young. Finally I always have at least one flock that free-ranges around house and others that free-range in adjoining pasture. Almost all male game fowl are confined with the exception of one around house and those on walks. My very small kids intermingle with the flock that free-ranges around house and 4-year-old harem master is intact with respect to spurs. I also have been around chickens for well over 40 years.
Below are aggression categories as I recognize them. Each is defined with description of aggressive behavior. I also think maturation process needs to introduced to discussion where the term ”rooster” is avoided. Also, many of the forms of aggression below are not exclusively the realm of males.
1) Is he just running over, pecking / flogging then running to a safe distance to deny your counter attack and simply watching you?
Bird has associated such behavior with a reward. In most instances I have seen the bird has obtained food faster or in larger amounts by engaging in some behavior directed at you. This is frequently realized with brooder reared birds interacting with you as feeders are armed or eats otherwise become more evident with you present. Another situation is where birds work their basic tendency to try and get at the most attractive food which to them often involves it appearing fresh within their field of view. For me that can involve putting feed out from a bucket as feeding a flock of hungry birds. They rush after you pushing each and sometimes in the excitement the bucket or even you. Many people see such behavior and promptly put feed out for the apparently famished bird. It takes very little for bird to associate intense response with getting more or faster.
Prevention: Avoid rewarding exploratory behavior such as pecking and jumping up for food. Make so food reward is delayed relative to your activity around birds. My favorite technique is apply feed either when birds are asleep or foraging elsewhere. With latter you just call birds in after feed is applied.
Correction: Move about flock / bird even with feed but do not give feed out until bird looses interest.
Benefits of Behavior to You or Bird: I manipulate this behavior train birds for experiments and interacting positively with the public. Behavior promoted simply does not involve what a person would see as aggression. Smart birds are really prone to this.
2) Is he standing his ground and flaring his hackles and interspersing this with outright attacks with spurs, wings and bill?
He is outright fighting you for rank and treats you as a conspecific. Based on most discussions this the assumed by keepers of man-fighters. Something is or has gone on that got him into mindset that you need to be and can be defeated so as to be a subordinate. Somewhere along the line you got too familiar with him and / or he learned through exploratory pecking he can make you retreat. This is particularly prevalent with folks that are uncomfortable around their birds. Even many experienced keepers are afraid of their birds for one reason or another and sometimes these people are prone to act aggressively against the birds and even bully them. This situation is more frequent than you might suspect and denial is often a part of the problem. Folks like this may need to visit with the equivalent of Alcohol Anonymous to work problem out. I have even seen people into gamefowl that are scared of their birds and they would be ready to fight you if you said they were such. Males in particular will take advantage of activities that make them feel tough. This is where genetics can also impact predisposition for man-fighting.
Prevention: Do not retreat from him when exploratory pecking or even flogging occurs. Do not attack him in response to an attack as it is very difficult to do so with appearing to alternate between bouts of attack and retreat like which occurs when birds fight.
Correction: Make so aggressive bird can engage you by fighting you but do nothing that would be interpreted as fighting back or retreating. Let him wail away (flog) which may last several minutes. If he breaks off attack, then move towards him but do not even give him the respect of eye contact. Do not strike or push him. Repeat until he stops. Process may need to be repeated in subsequent days with hardheaded birds. You want him to start thinking of you as something that is very much not another chicken. This may mean a flannel shirt or sweat shirt and jeans. Ideally you will appear the same as you do on other days so he does not test you for days when you are weak. If spurs are an issue which they can be with birds more than 18 months old, then they can be neutralized by removal, trimming or covering with the equivalent of boxing gloves (most laymen will not have last option owing to legal restrictions). An alternative to this approach can involve the restraint / time-out sessions where bird does not get the release associated with combat but does get a penalty he will learn to avoid. This technique does appear to work although it takes more time and is hard on birds that are flighty and prone to panic when restrained which is a form of stress.
Benefits of Behavior to You or Bird: Can be used to help sell a gamerooster to a fool. In a competitive breeding setting such as in a commercial flock more aggressive birds garner more fertilizations of eggs therefore tend to be more prolific. This not directly related to what is referred to as gameness in gamefowl.
3) Is he attacking while fluffed up like a hen making lots of noises and moving about in a very fussy manner? This if often associated with roosters where members of his harem (hen(s) or offspring) are scared. Many roosters, especially games will attack whatever they see as the threat and sometimes, real or not, that can be you. His response will be in trying to repel you. Rooster may also get touchy when new feathers are coming in during molt.
Prevention: Be careful around birds, especially when hens or chicks are involved. Avoid grabbing birds during daylight. Get birds to move voluntarily. Any rooster is easier to work with when his charges are calmer so always having all birds tame helps immensely. One crazy hen can stir up a male. I always manage for calm birds and that means starting from before hatch of an individual. Be careful when handling birds, especially during molt.
Correction: Frequent low intensity interactions without stirring anyone up reduces sensitivity to your activities.
Benefits of Behavior to You or Bird: Such behavior can increase survival of males offspring which can benefit you. This especially with small predators a male can repel or distract.
Culling can also be employed, but some parties will, as a function of their husbandry technique, be culling a lot of birds that would not be problematic for most poultry keepers.
Quote: I think this is excellent advice. I had not thought of that before, but I do see your point. I think people often love it when they all come running towards you, mistaking it for a liking. When in reality they are just after feed. That frenzy, can stir up excitement in the hens, which will upset the rooster.
Very good advice.
Mrs K
Very good advice.
Mrs K
So, my head rooster recently flogged me. He is a 21 week Speckled Sussex. He had been showing dominance toward the DH and my 16yo son for a few days but never me. I picked him up and carried him around as recommended. Well, after about 5 minutes of cleaning with him in my arms, he whipped his head around and took a chunk out of my bottom lip. Now he bum rushes the run door any time someone tries to come in a feed/water them. We all used to spend tons of time just hanging out with the chickens but not for the last 2 days since he got my lip. We all really like this rooster but, if he attacks while being held, what other tactics can we try to make him stop attacking like a jerk?
We don't want to cull him....
We don't want to cull him....
Stop holding him first off..Roosters are dangerous and should be treated as such..He should respect your space not the other way around...
Welcome, Moe! You've just read very good advice from people with lots of experience, and some from some hopeful but not so experienced folks.
I've had a flock, including roosters, for almost 25 years, and have had roosters both good and bad. It's a combination of genetics and training, so some folks can get away with things that will trigger awfulness in some cockerels. LIKE YOURS!
My personal opinion is that your boy is already too dangerous to work with; he may learn to respect individual humans (but always be ready to attack) but will have to be convinced that every human must be ignored,
NO bird gets near my face! I'm just glad he didn't reach your eye!!
Beekist has that wonderful report on rooster management; if you want to try, start there.
Roosters, bulls boars, and stallions, have priorities and needs that must be met and managed, and need to be respected for who they are. Also, brains smaller than their testicles!!!
I've had almost a dozen SS cockerels over the years, and some few were charming, while more than half were jerks. The SS hens are a delight, but I can't say the same for all the males. You have one of the jerks, IMO. Move him on before real injuries happen.
Mary
I've had a flock, including roosters, for almost 25 years, and have had roosters both good and bad. It's a combination of genetics and training, so some folks can get away with things that will trigger awfulness in some cockerels. LIKE YOURS!
My personal opinion is that your boy is already too dangerous to work with; he may learn to respect individual humans (but always be ready to attack) but will have to be convinced that every human must be ignored,
NO bird gets near my face! I'm just glad he didn't reach your eye!!
Beekist has that wonderful report on rooster management; if you want to try, start there.
Roosters, bulls boars, and stallions, have priorities and needs that must be met and managed, and need to be respected for who they are. Also, brains smaller than their testicles!!!
I've had almost a dozen SS cockerels over the years, and some few were charming, while more than half were jerks. The SS hens are a delight, but I can't say the same for all the males. You have one of the jerks, IMO. Move him on before real injuries happen.
Mary
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