A Bielefelder Thread !

[KWH1]

I have also, but trimming did not help, and AE did not work, the only thing that worked was getting a completely different line of Biel males.

I am gonna guess, there is an inbreeding infertile issue here, my males were acting male, and fledging male...and they were upset when I took them away from the females and placed them on the other side of the fence....after a week, put them back and they just sat, and sorta acted like hens.
They had no desire to mate, not one actually mounted, and no amount of cushion trimming would work...and seriously, we had 4 males & tried AE...and there was no joice !
I never did a necropsy on these males to see if maybe the testes were shrunkin or ?????

Like I said, I have gotten over 5 lines of Biels now, and it is working like magic !!!

Thanks for the info! Did you ever get fertile eggs from your male? Is it even possible for a Rooster to be fertile his first month or so of breeding and then become infertile the next month - due to inbreeding? During the months of December and January I did witness the rooster mating - very aggressively. And I was getting eggs from the three hens that were ALL fertilized in January. Based on what I'm reading throughout this thread I think perhaps he has simply stopped mating for some reason. An unknown reason that is not impacting any of my other breeds. I will try to watch this weekend to see if he's still even attempting to mate. But he was absolutely fertile a month ago. Again could the inbreeding issue even be an issue if he WAS fertilizing eggs when he first came of age to do so?

 

[KWH1]

Only out of curiosity. Does someone know how many birds where imported by Greenfire? I talked to one of the older breeders in our lokal club who breeds German Langshan, a realy rare breed. He worked for 10 years with birds that came form one 1,4 group with out inbreeding problems and only after 10 years he brought in fresh blood. Not finding good birds in black that were not related to his, he crossed white roos into his black flock to make sure that he new birds were not related to his birds. And I see many breeders of extrem rare breeds working for years with a very limited stock, so I can't imagin that the Bielefelders show problems after only three years. I can see why you have problems with flaws in birds that may come from the fact that even not that good birds are used for breeding, b/c if a breed is not only rare but expencive a breeder will be tempted not to cull non breeding stock bird but to sell birds. And I can totaly understand that. Noone culls a bird when the demant for the breed is that high.

"so I can't imagin that the Bielefelders show problems after only three years."

Based on my own flock and inbreeding I can see your point. My Dominiques are 6 generations / years inbred (by me) and there are no appearance flaws or fertility issues.

 

[Bine]

To all who sit in front of a bator: Good luck and remember grass doesn't grow faster when pulled and chicks need 21 days to hatch.
With the fertile issue....hm... only thing that sometime comes up in winter is too much calcium. When a flock only feeds on layer feed the rooster can have problems with the calcium in the food. They don't have a outlet for the calcium like hens have. It takes a while for the calcium to accumulate in the bird, so I try to feed more grain to my flock in the secound half of winter. And there must be a connection between vitamin D and fertility. In humans, I think, they found a proof for it, but I think, that my tiny boys have also a problem with the lack of sunshine in the winter. But my birds roost on the 52 line of latitude under thick clouds every winter. In your region winter is maybe not as dark and cold. I am a big fan of "Atkins Diet for chickens" a spoonful of cat or dog food every week makes the birds shining and active in winter, when worms, bugs and herbs are hart to find.

 

[otakalhasas]

To all who sit in front of a bator: Good luck and remember grass doesn't grow faster when pulled and chicks need 21 days to hatch.
With the fertile issue....hm... only thing that sometime comes up in winter is too much calcium. When a flock only feeds on layer feed the rooster can have problems with the calcium in the food. They don't have a outlet for the calcium like hens have. It takes a while for the calcium to accumulate in the bird, so I try to feed more grain to my flock in the secound half of winter. And there must be a connection between vitamin D and fertility. In humans, I think, they found a proof for it, but I think, that my tiny boys have also a problem with the lack of sunshine in the winter. But my birds roost on the 52 line of latitude under thick clouds every winter. In your region winter is maybe not as dark and cold. I am a big fan of "Atkins Diet for chickens" a spoonful of cat or dog food every week makes the birds shining and active in winter, when worms, bugs and herbs are hart to find.

I do something similar to replace the protein the girls may lack in winter. I took last year's holiday turkey carcasses, boiled them down for broth then picked them clean. Put all the meat pieces in a food processor to chop them up fairly fine and froze in small plastic bags for use in the winter. I defrost in fridge the night before feeding and the girls go NUTS for it!
.
It's a win/win - we get a goodly supply of turkey broth and the girls get some much needed protein. But I love the idea of canned pet food - maybe not a thrifty, but surely much easier!!!!!

 

[Chickielady]

Only out of curiosity. Does someone know how many birds where imported by Greenfire? I talked to one of the older breeders in our lokal club who breeds German Langshan, a realy rare breed. He worked for 10 years with birds that came form one 1,4 group with out inbreeding problems and only after 10 years he brought in fresh blood. Not finding good birds in black that were not related to his, he crossed white roos into his black flock to make sure that he new birds were not related to his birds. And I see many breeders of extrem rare breeds working for years with a very limited stock, so I can't imagin that the Bielefelders show problems after only three years. I can see why you have problems with flaws in birds that may come from the fact that even not that good birds are used for breeding, b/c if a breed is not only rare but expencive a breeder will be tempted not to cull non breeding stock bird but to sell birds. And I can totaly understand that. Noone culls a bird when the demant for the breed is that high.

In some cases that may be so.
And the Bielefelder population here in the USA can only be explained as 'Explosive' as so many have this bird now, and its numbers multiplied so many times over.
Once a breeder has a decent flock, then he/she can cull any that are inferier, but as you said, when there is not many to work with, temptation would be to multiply until you did have enough to work with.

We have that saying here:
Work with what you have.
And try as you might, to locate more, to breed in "fresh" bloodlines.

 

[Chickielady]

Not molting. All hens and rooster are active and eating so none seem ill or under the weather. I agree it seems to be a problem with the rooster. I will attempt to watch them this weekend to see if he's even attempting to mate.

That is how mine were, the male had no interest in mounting.
The weather can affect the males sperm count.
Especially in a standard comb breed.
If the temperatures are really cold, less sperm are produced.
That said, I have not seen that effect his desire to still mount.
I really suspected low T...

 

[Chickielady]

Didn't change anything. If these 3 Bielefelder hens and 1 Bielefelder rooster were my ONLY chickens then I could see some random event possibly causing the problem. But ALL my other breeds are bringing in fertile eggs. Dominiques, Black Australorps and Buff Orpingtons are all fertile eggs. Every single egg from all the other breeds are perfectly fine. I will try to watch this weekend to see if the Bielefelder rooster is even attempting to mate.

This is interesteing, mine never had any interest in mounting, although he did get upset if there was another male around.

I put him in an adjacent pen, where he could see his hens through the wire.

And I put a new Male in with the hens, and the first male was visably mad !
Yet he had had no desire to mate, month after month.
I inspected him, he was healthy, he had no disease, he was almost a year old....he talked to the hens, cooed, offered food, for all the world he did it all, but never mounted.

 

[Chickielady]

Not molting. All hens and rooster are active and eating so none seem ill or under the weather. I agree it seems to be a problem with the rooster. I will attempt to watch them this weekend to see if he's even attempting to mate.

Wonder if you & I got our stock from the same person ?
I suppose it doesn't matter now.
If you were closer I'd give you an armload of male chicks, I am over run with them now.

 

[Chickielady]

"so I can't imagin that the Bielefelders show problems after only three years."

Based on my own flock and inbreeding I can see your point. My Dominiques are 6 generations / years inbred (by me) and there are no appearance flaws or fertility issues.

I got 5 Silver Cuckoo Marans and 1 cockerel in 1997, in Santa Rosa, CA...and have bred them for years with no new blood, and they are perfect.
I have used this Silver Cuckoo Male to breed to my Biel hens last year because my Biel Cockerel would not mate.
The experience proved that the hens would allow mounting, and the eggs hatched super easily.

And that is why I have a flock of semi-Silver Crele Bielefelders.....Necessity is indeed, the Mother of Invention.

By the way, the Semi-Silver Crele Hens are now in again, with a Biel cockerel, so they are being bred back. We'll see what the hatchings bring !
Exciting !

 

[Chickielady]

To all who sit in front of a bator: Good luck and remember grass doesn't grow faster when pulled and chicks need 21 days to hatch.
With the fertile issue....hm... only thing that sometime comes up in winter is too much calcium. When a flock only feeds on layer feed the rooster can have problems with the calcium in the food. They don't have a outlet for the calcium like hens have. It takes a while for the calcium to accumulate in the bird, so I try to feed more grain to my flock in the secound half of winter. And there must be a connection between vitamin D and fertility. In humans, I think, they found a proof for it, but I think, that my tiny boys have also a problem with the lack of sunshine in the winter. But my birds roost on the 52 line of latitude under thick clouds every winter. In your region winter is maybe not as dark and cold. I am a big fan of "Atkins Diet for chickens" a spoonful of cat or dog food every week makes the birds shining and active in winter, when worms, bugs and herbs are hart to find.

Great idea !
It is horribly dark and more often than not, misty, rainy, monsoon, or flat out hurricane weather here.
I have lights in the coops on timers, coming on at 5 AM and off at 6 PM.
The Calicium theory sounds like it would hold true...and I know the males need a bit more zinc than the hens, and not as much phosphorus and Calcium...hmmm, you have me thinking now.
But still, like the others, I have many many breeds, and none have ever not wanted to mount & mate.
Even the hens wanted to mate.