A Bielefelder Thread !

[Bine]

We in Germany had a debate about the chick-shredder in the industrial poultry business lately.
Our animal welfare law is quite clear about the fact that we don´t want anyone to kill an animal only because it is an inconvenience. So I can trap mice, b/c they are risk for food security, I can trap voles, if the digging activity is a risk to my shed, but I am not allowed to kill a mole only because I don´t like what it does with my lawn. Not everyone respects this law and it is quite frankly not the best controlled law. But it has it good effects in society. We got rid of kill shelters for pets and everyone accepts the spaying and neutering of dogs and cats as mandatory.
The only big exceptions of this law are lab and farm animals but with that principle in place, it raised the standards for these animals, too and the green party and animal welfare organizations try to push for more. They tried to make a lawsuit against the big poultry operations in Germany. The first attempted failed but they will try again and the discussion it sparked in public made clear that no one wants to tolerate this practice forever. So the industry is looking for a solution and the government has made it clear that if industry doesn´t come forward with a plan to change that practice they will be forced to change. And yellow press front pages with a cute chick asking the reader to “please, save my brother..” is the last thing the industry needs every year around Easter, I think. So if there is a secure method to modify the sex of chicks, I will maybe the first to hear from it.

 

[bluejean55girl]

Yes. It

We in Germany had a debate about the chick-shredder in the industrial poultry business lately.

Our animal welfare law is quite clear about the fact that we don´t want anyone to kill an animal only because it is an inconvenience. So I can trap mice, b/c they are risk for food security, I can trap voles, if the digging activity is a risk to my shed, but I am not allowed to kill a mole only because I don´t like what it does with my lawn. Not everyone respects this law and it is quite frankly not the best controlled law. But it has it good effects in society. We got rid of kill shelters for pets and everyone accepts the spaying and neutering of dogs and cats as mandatory.

The only big exceptions of this law are lab and farm animals but with that principle in place, it raised the standards for these animals, too and the green party and animal welfare organizations try to push for more. They tried to make a lawsuit against the big poultry operations in Germany. The first attempted failed but they will try again and the discussion it sparked in public made clear that no one wants to tolerate this practice forever. So the industry is looking for a solution and the government has made it clear that if industry doesn´t come forward with a plan to change that practice they will be forced to change. And yellow press front pages with a cute chick asking the reader to “please, save my brother..” is the last thing the industry needs every year around Easter, I think.  So if there is a secure method to modify the sex of chicks, I will maybe the first to hear from it.   

yes, it's the secure method that is the hard part. Although I think that Germany has figured out how to sex chicks in the shell now.

 

[DesertChic]

We in Germany had a debate about the chick-shredder in the industrial poultry business lately.
Our animal welfare law is quite clear about the fact that we don´t want anyone to kill an animal only because it is an inconvenience. So I can trap mice, b/c they are risk for food security, I can trap voles, if the digging activity is a risk to my shed, but I am not allowed to kill a mole only because I don´t like what it does with my lawn. Not everyone respects this law and it is quite frankly not the best controlled law. But it has it good effects in society. We got rid of kill shelters for pets and everyone accepts the spaying and neutering of dogs and cats as mandatory.
The only big exceptions of this law are lab and farm animals but with that principle in place, it raised the standards for these animals, too and the green party and animal welfare organizations try to push for more. They tried to make a lawsuit against the big poultry operations in Germany. The first attempted failed but they will try again and the discussion it sparked in public made clear that no one wants to tolerate this practice forever. So the industry is looking for a solution and the government has made it clear that if industry doesn´t come forward with a plan to change that practice they will be forced to change. And yellow press front pages with a cute chick asking the reader to “please, save my brother..” is the last thing the industry needs every year around Easter, I think. So if there is a secure method to modify the sex of chicks, I will maybe the first to hear from it.

A friend I made here on the BYC once commented that if anyone had ever figured out how to control gender of each hatch, it would have already been patented and that person would be incredibly rich (I paraphrase). I guess that's the holy grail of the poultry world.

There's a fairly strong movement here in the U.S. right now to completely change industrial poultry keeping. Personally, having studied and learned about the mechanization (and quality destruction) of food production here, I think this is long overdue, BUT....and here's my hidden concern...the group pushing for these changes has announced that their ultimately goal is to make everyone in this country convert to vegetarianism. That's the pendulum swinging from one extreme to another. I've already been called a whole slew of names and looked upon with utter disgust because of my ability to raise and butcher my own birds for meat. There's such a massive disconnect between the people who buy their food wrapping in plastic and the people who process that food for others that it's become all too easy for the ignorant masses to pass judgement on those who prefer a more natural connection to their food production.

I'll be the first to admit that I literally cringe and/or shudder at the thought of a baby chick being thrown into a shredder. Just the sight of a helpless, innocent baby chick fills me with joy, and the thought of one being tossed into that heartless, hungry machine brings forth ideas of just what that little bird had the potential to grow into. And then a big dose of reality sets in, because for me that little cockerel would eventually have become dinner, which equates to killing the bird when it's much older, but killing it nonetheless. The main difference is that I would get a pretty fantastic dinner out of the process.

Humans have evolved to eat meat. That's a simple, irrefutable fact, and even though some choose not to consume meat, they invariably suffer physically for their 'moral' decision, but that's their right. It's MY right to decide for myself to continue eating meat, and to have a say in the quality of that meat. So....killing baby chicks is an ugly reality, but it's also a practical way of dealing with the problem of excess, unwanted cockerels. I just hope that meat isn't going to waste...that it's at least finding its way into dog food or something. Otherwise, the idealist in me says we should grow out those cockerels, perhaps after caponizing them to reduce fighting, and put a chicken in every pot.

 

[Bridebeliever]

Since getting chickens I and my family have REALLY had to come to terms with being meat eaters and the whole process involved. I honestly feel so much better about getting my eggs, and eventually my meat, from humanely healthy raised chickens. The cages, the meat grinders, the no access to natural light and AIR! It makes me ill to think about! We now have meat rabbits too, that have access to outside...and someday, if we get land we want meat and dairy cows. I find this is the only REAL alternative to our society food issues. I can tell you now that I have NO problem paying top dollar for local produce and meat knowing the labor and cost involved to those farmers. Before chickens (as silly as it sounds) I never really connected this and thought $5 for a carton of eggs or $6.99 per pound for beef was outrageous! Blessings on the humble backyard chicken for their reality checks!

 

[Red Banks]

We in Germany had a debate about the chick-shredder in the industrial poultry business lately.
Our animal welfare law is quite clear about the fact that we don´t want anyone to kill an animal only because it is an inconvenience. So I can trap mice, b/c they are risk for food security, I can trap voles, if the digging activity is a risk to my shed, but I am not allowed to kill a mole only because I don´t like what it does with my lawn. Not everyone respects this law and it is quite frankly not the best controlled law. But it has it good effects in society. We got rid of kill shelters for pets and everyone accepts the spaying and neutering of dogs and cats as mandatory.
The only big exceptions of this law are lab and farm animals but with that principle in place, it raised the standards for these animals, too and the green party and animal welfare organizations try to push for more. They tried to make a lawsuit against the big poultry operations in Germany. The first attempted failed but they will try again and the discussion it sparked in public made clear that no one wants to tolerate this practice forever. So the industry is looking for a solution and the government has made it clear that if industry doesn´t come forward with a plan to change that practice they will be forced to change. And yellow press front pages with a cute chick asking the reader to “please, save my brother..” is the last thing the industry needs every year around Easter, I think. So if there is a secure method to modify the sex of chicks, I will maybe the first to hear from it.

I wasn't going to comment on this post. I don't want more government, more control over the choices I make. Where do pets come from if all pets are spayed/neutered.

Then I had to cringe at sex modification. Frankly the future scares the hell out of me!

 

[bluejean55girl]

question: will the males keep their head spots? or will those spots be gone the first time they molt? or before?

 

[DesertChic]

I wasn't going to comment on this post. I don't want more government, more control over the choices I make. Where do pets come from if all pets are spayed/neutered.

Then I had to cringe at sex modification. Frankly the future scares the hell out of me!

My husband and I feel the same way. So much regulation that actually defies logic, and primarily based on emotional reactions from a select group of people.

Last night I made a dinner comprised almost entirely by what I've managed to grow here at home. The salad greens came from my garden, the chicken I roasted was one of my culled roosters, and deviled eggs came from my hens. The meal was deliciously satisfying in more ways than one, since it suddenly dawned on me that I really can do this. I can nourish my family with truly organically raised food.

 

[karib574]

How do you cull roosters, anyway? I wouldn't want to do it myself, so do you find a local butcher, in that case? How much would they charge?

 

[DesertChic]

How do you cull roosters, anyway? I wouldn't want to do it myself, so do you find a local butcher, in that case? How much would they charge?

It is an extremely rare occurrence to find someone willing to cull your roosters for you, even for money. I now use a culling cone attached to a post. I have a collapsible table that I set up underneath the cone, and a rope to hold the chicken's feet still and to secure the bird better so he can't escape...because yes, those birds will definitely escape the killing cone. Once secure I exsanguinate the bird by slitting its jugular and let it bleed out, which only takes a few minutes. The process is typically quick and relatively quiet, not nearly as messy as chopping the bird's head off, and manageable for someone of limited strength. I tried cutting the head off one time and discovered that whether from lack of strength or mental fortitude, I couldn't complete the task in one easy motion and wound up covered in blood. Since I need to be able to cull the chickens completely alone, exsanguination is my preferred method.

The hardest part of culling, without a doubt, is the mental aspect of it. I sometimes spend days or weeks convincing myself to finally take action, and even now I have a few cockerels that should be culled that I just haven't been able to bring myself to deal with because they're so sweet tempered.

 

[UGLYFOOT]

How do you cull roosters, anyway? I wouldn't want to do it myself, so do you find a local butcher, in that case? How much would they charge?

I am not sure you can get a butcher to kill and process your roosters. You might find someone on here that is local that would be willing to do that for you. Usually if a professional is going to do that kind of service it would be for a larger quantity.

If you have not been on the Idaho/Eastern Washington thread on here you should check it out. We have a pretty active group. We are having a meeting this Saturday in Post Falls, and you are certainly welcome to come.