A century of Turkey talk 2000-2100.

[KF0002]

I have two that ended up white w blue eyes in the end, no remaining visible red....
The Tom is a big guy, and has grown very quickly.

The blue Sweetgrass is also growing well, and everyone else is as they “should” be

I -love- our Sweetgrass!!

That's cool you ended up with white poults from the parent stock. They must have been carrying recessive white. Glad to hear they are all doing well! I love sweetgrass also. They some of my nicest looking birds.

 

[KF0002]

Could this be the beginnings of what looks to be painted feathers? I have a light chocolate colored poult and a little slate looking one that is getting the painted looking feathers with the darker feather vein that looks similar to the painted birds I've seen.

*The purple staining you see is blue kote spray. Some of the other poults decided to pick at the little slate colored poult's bottom until it got a bit bloody. I sprayed the poult to conceal the wound and changed out the bulb for a red one and no further picking.

 

[I Like Turkeys]

Just something I’m excited about. Got a rusty black female yesterday. Weirdly one of my favorite varieties. Right now she’s in with my skates and blacks, but I may integrate her in with my rusty black Tom later on. Bound to be fun results from that crossing, and I think the tom carries Chocolate, so double the fun with that in the mix. I just think this is such a pretty variety. Dying to see them together, honestly. They’re both so iridescent I think getting them in a single photo would be beautiful.

 

[KF0002]

Just something I’m excited about. Got a rusty black female yesterday. Weirdly one of my favorite varieties. Right now she’s in with my skates and blacks, but I may integrate her in with my rusty black Tom later on. Bound to be fun results from that crossing, and I think the tom carries Chocolate, so double the fun with that in the mix. I just think this is such a pretty variety. Dying to see them together, honestly. They’re both so iridescent I think getting them in a single photo would be beautiful.View attachment 3707943

She is lovely! Definitely an underrated variety for sure. I'm quite confident two of my poults will be rusty black but they don't have the white face mask so they may have a split base, split either BWB or bronze. So Bb1 Rr or Bb Rr as opposed to a full black base Rusty Black (BB Rr). They also look to have faint markings like bronze poults have.

If I am inaccurate on something, please help me to understand. I am still learning the genetics of the different varieties.

Congratulations on your new hen!

 

[HeritageFan]

That's cool you ended up with white poults from the parent stock. They must have been carrying recessive white. Glad to hear they are all doing well! I love sweetgrass also. They some of my nicest looking birds.

I’m actually hoping that these guys just got mixed up w the wrong batch.... but they all looked like SG as poults.
:/
I don’t completely understand white as it relates to turkey color genetics yet- my color genetics background is fairly strong.... but related to cat colors.
No, I’m not a crazy cat lady lol
and am no longer breeding at this time. But.

In cats. Trying to keep it simple-
You have to have a white cat, to get a white cat. It is a essentially a partially dominant “mask” for any other color.
(Not talking about bicolor, only solid whites. Different genetic markers)

I’ll spare everyone from my going into further detail unless someone is curious.
But. You will -never- end up w a white kitten that becomes a white adult cat without at least one white parent.(“Siamese” are born white and that recessive color modifier can pop up out of unexpected pairings- and also barring albinism)

I have to assume that the white factor is a similar situation in turkeys.
It has been recommended that I do not include those 2 white birds either in my SG or Holland White breeding groups.
I’d like to keep the Tom due to his rapid growth, temperament, and general build, but I know his blue eyes would set me back a bit for the HW program. Plus, I don’t really know for sure what’s “under” the white.
I know it would be smarter to remove him from the breeding program. Plus I have a lovely, young(ish), gentle, and large HW Tom w brown eyes w his harem . I think I should let him stay w his girls

I have more photos of the poults when they arrived. This one is in the parking lot of the post office this summer, I was SO excited

 

[R2elk]

I don’t completely understand white as it relates to turkey color genetics

In turkeys, white (c) is a recessive that when homozygous masks all other colors. White turkeys can be produced by each parent having at least one recessive white (c) color gene.

A white turkey (cc) crossed with a non white turkey (CC, cgcg, or Ccg) will not produce any white turkeys (Cc or cgc).

I know his blue eyes

Blue eyes in a white turkey indicates that the turkey is black based B rather than bronze based (b or b1).

 

[HeritageFan]

Blue eyes in a white turkey indicates that the turkey is black based B rather than bronze based (b or b1).

Thank you, as always!
Fascinating info

That last bit I did know, as I’ve understood the HW is “supposed” to be brown eyes...... although many I’ve seen have blue eyes as do a few of ours.

 

[KF0002]

I’m actually hoping that these guys just got mixed up w the wrong batch.... but they all looked like SG as poults.
:/
I don’t completely understand white as it relates to turkey color genetics yet- my color genetics background is fairly strong.... but related to cat colors.
No, I’m not a crazy cat lady lol
and am no longer breeding at this time. But.

In cats. Trying to keep it simple-
You have to have a white cat, to get a white cat. It is a essentially a partially dominant “mask” for any other color.
(Not talking about bicolor, only solid whites. Different genetic markers)

I’ll spare everyone from my going into further detail unless someone is curious.
But. You will -never- end up w a white kitten that becomes a white adult cat without at least one white parent.(“Siamese” are born white and that recessive color modifier can pop up out of unexpected pairings- and also barring albinism)

I have to assume that the white factor is a similar situation in turkeys.
It has been recommended that I do not include those 2 white birds either in my SG or Holland White breeding groups.
I’d like to keep the Tom due to his rapid growth, temperament, and general build, but I know his blue eyes would set me back a bit for the HW program. Plus, I don’t really know for sure what’s “under” the white.
I know it would be smarter to remove him from the breeding program. Plus I have a lovely, young(ish), gentle, and large HW Tom w brown eyes w his harem . I think I should let him stay w his girls

I have more photos of the poults when they arrived. This one is in the parking lot of the post office this summer, I was SO excited

I agree with you and would continue to use your true HW tom in your breeding program. You could put your blue eyed white in with a test group of hens and breed that group for rapid growth to produce meat birds. That would be beneficial to have. But if you don't have the space, or fear the progeny of the two groups of white birds would get mixed up and pollute your HWs, stick to your HW and part ways or harvest the blue-eyed tom. We will eventually cull our semi-white-looking hens and jake from our flock as soon as I produce nicer hens to replace them, since the semi white isn't something I want to perpetuate. We prefer the look of birds with more color, like the Harvest Gold, Penciled Fall Fire, and Sweetgrass.

I look forward to hatching poults from my birds also. I am particularly excited about the progeny I may expect out of my Harvest Gold tom and Blue Sweetgrass Semi White hen. If the odds are in my favor, I may produce some blue red phoenix from that pair. Other possibilities are red phoenix and cornish palm to name a few. We shall see.

 

[HeritageFan]

I agree with you and would continue to use your true HW tom in your breeding program. You could put your blue eyed white in with a test group of hens and breed that group for rapid growth to produce meat birds. That would be beneficial to have. But if you don't have the space, or fear the progeny of the two groups of white birds would get mixed up and pollute your HWs, stick to your HW and part ways or harvest the blue-eyed tom. We will eventually cull our semi-white-looking hens and jake from our flock as soon as I produce nicer hens to replace them, since the semi white isn't something I want to perpetuate. We prefer the look of birds with more color, like the Harvest Gold, Penciled Fall Fire, and Sweetgrass.

I look forward to hatching poults from my birds also. I am particularly excited about the progeny I may expect out of my Harvest Gold tom and Blue Sweetgrass Semi White hen. If the odds are in my favor, I may produce some blue red phoenix from that pair. Other possibilities are red phoenix and cornish palm to name a few. We shall see.

Thank you for the feedback!
I’m always a little torn about what poults sell locally vs our breeding program goals.
I am of the opinion that everyone should love the Holland Whites as much as I do-
- Super docile, both male and female
- Able to reproduce on their own
- Reach butcher weight at about 5mos, full size by 8-9 mos
- Beautiful on the table
The Bourbon Reds that I’ve had are
- Beautiful,
- Still have white feather shafts, so, still pretty on the table (roasted)
- Take twice as long as the Holland Whites to reach “max” size, and that is an issue IMO
They hit “butcher” weight at the same ~5 mos range, but don’t reach “full” size until about 18 mos (at least the lines we have follow the info I’ve read)
I may also be bias TBH because, while my BR Tom is one of my favorites, his hen (I only have one BR hen for him) she is a spazz and one of my least favorites. She’s not mean, but, is not happy about routine handling for general health/ foot checks/ wing clipping, etc.

.....but everyone seems to want “pretty” turkeys in their yard/ run/ coop.
Even if it isn’t as pretty on the table (like the many varieties that have black feather shafts, and grow much more slowly)
I’m still trying to figure out my local market. But. We also raise them to enjoy them ourselves, primarily, so,
Well
I’m not sure how much I care what the local market “Asks”
I have different goals (type, temperament, growth rate, etc)

 

[KF0002]

Thank you for the feedback!
I’m always a little torn about what poults sell locally vs our breeding program goals.
I am of the opinion that everyone should love the Holland Whites as much as I do-
- Super docile, both male and female
- Able to reproduce on their own
- Reach butcher weight at about 5mos, full size by 8-9 mos
- Beautiful on the table
The Bourbon Reds that I’ve had are
- Beautiful,
- Still have white feather shafts, so, still pretty on the table (roasted)
- Take twice as long as the Holland Whites to reach “max” size, and that is an issue IMO
They hit “butcher” weight at the same ~5 mos range, but don’t reach “full” size until about 18 mos (at least the lines we have follow the info I’ve read)
I may also be bias TBH because, while my BR Tom is one of my favorites, his hen (I only have one BR hen for him) she is a spazz and one of my least favorites. She’s not mean, but, is not happy about routine handling for general health/ foot checks/ wing clipping, etc.

.....but everyone seems to want “pretty” turkeys in their yard/ run/ coop.
Even if it isn’t as pretty on the table (like the many varieties that have black feather shafts, and grow much more slowly)
I’m still trying to figure out my local market. But. We also raise them to enjoy them ourselves, primarily, so,
Well
I’m not sure how much I care what the local market “Asks”
I have different goals (type, temperament, growth rate, etc)

White birds do dress out nicer that is true. I mainly want my turkeys as a hobby to give my mind respite from the rigors of school. They provide stress relief and I enjoy them. The less common varieties sell better in my area, and we get so much muck and mud everywhere in the winter in my area, even though the greatest majority of our birds free range, the white birds just get dirtier looking. So birds with color look nicer here. That has been my experience with chickens anyway. I love the look of white turkeys and chickens, but my husband prefers the birds with color so we've decided that is our goal since we do get so much muddy/soggy weather in fall, winter, and spring.

But you can't beat a nice roasted white bird on the dinner table. We butchered a bunch of white Cornish-rock crosses and they looked so nice dressed. And if meat is your main goal, the HWs sound perfect as far as feed consumption and reaching a nice size for butchering at a younger age.