- Jul 9, 2008
- 324
- 5
- 131
Quote:
what's so bad about London?
what's so bad about London?
A Dangerous Topic - the new health care plan
- Thread starter BantyHugger
- Start date
- Status
No health care system is perfect. What I do know is that the one we've got now is no longer working and is getting worse and HAS BEEN GETTING WORSE FOR QUITE A WHILE. I strongly believe that it's a bad idea to NOT change to a universal health care system. It's not just about a commodity that someone should or shouldn't be able to buy; universal health care is an investment in our economic competitiveness, in a healthier workforce and country, and a better quality of life for Americans, while still providing room for choices. (Remember, you also always have the choice to buy a little additional insurance if you want to use some of the extra money that you'll have, even after paying any possible additional tax.)
Although not a doctor, I come from a family where both parents were doctors and my older brother is also one. Both of my parents (one a conservative and the other a liberal) agreed on one thing politically; Americans NEED to switch to universal health care coverage (NOT socialized) so that Americans can receive better care, be healthier, live longer, and have a more competitive economy.
The liberal one points out that it's ethically not right to let anyone die when you can help them (do unto others as you would have done to you), and the conservative pointed out that it didn't make economic sense and that, as a Christian, since Christ had said that how we treated the "least of us" was how we treated Him, it was unethical to not treat those in need.
Of course, they're both doctors so they're a bit biased, I guess, but then they were both willing to take pay cuts if the US did go with universal health care. In almost the same breath, they also pointed out that they could take a pay cut and still have the same amount of money, if not more, because they wouldn't have to dish out so much money for health care for the family and they and their children would be assured of getting decent health care. The conservative worked mostly in private practice but also worked for a while (until disabled) for the government. That person was, too put it mildly, quite unfriendly to the idea of any entity (insurers or government) telling her what treatment(s) would be covered, but still was adamant that universal care would be better than our current system.
There's a lot of scary stories being passed around, but all I know is what we currently have doesn't work and we need to try something that is less expensive and gives as good or better care. We're told that our choices will be taken away (most already have been), that care will be rationed (already is), that the level of care will be worse (not so), that we'll all have to pay increased taxes (as a community, we already are paying more - ask employers who then take it out of wages), and that the system will be less efficient (likely to be the reverse!).
We are the only developed country that doesn't have universal health care insurance or coverage (it doesn't have to be socialized, you know). We pay about 40 to 50% MORE on average and rank BELOW almost all of them on the common major indicators of health. We pay over 89% more per person than Canada for our healthcare! So they have waiting lines in Canada? At least when they're really ill, they can get treatment fast. They also get care that can prevent more expensive healthcare costs. THEY CAN ALSO CHOOSE TO GET ADDITIONAL PRIVATE INSURANCE TO COVER ANYTHING NOT COVERED BY THE SOCIALIZED SYSTEM (or pay out of pocket). And their system is one of the very few universal care systems that actually IS a truly socialized health care system. Almost all of the rest are some form of required insurance, usually a blend of public and private.
Remember when Americans had one of the highest average lifespans in the world? Not anymore! We've gone from way ahead of everyone else to dropping behind those of people who live in countries that require universal health care, even the countries whose systems are commonly maligned in the U.S. Most of them require that everyone have insurance but they use different methods; private insurance only, private and/or public, or public. Most use the private/public combination, which is what Obama has proposed.
A lot has been said about the new system taking away American's choices as related to health care. We already have many of our decisions made or dictated by insurance companies and by the very fact that we have so many uninsured people in the U.S.A. If you ask people you know, I think you'll find a surprising number who were told that the insurance company wouldn't pay for this or for that or only under certain circumstances. I know they've done it to me and to my doctors many times and I don't like going to see doctors to begin with, so I'm not going in for a bunch of stuff that I don't need. Of course, if you're one of the many (legal) workers in the U.S. that doesn't have insurance, your choices are very few to zip.
I think every American should read at least these three articles:
The Council on Foreign Relations "Taking The Measure Of Health Care In America" article at http://www.cfr.org/publication/13325/
An article from the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health at http://www.jhsph.edu/publichealthnews/press_releases/2005/anderson_healthspending.html
and, Wikipedia's page on Universal health care (at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_health_care)
Our current system that relies primarily on private insurance is too expensive and it's reducing our country's economic competitiveness, reducing our standard of living, and is increasingly covering fewer people and less treatment. We simply can't afford to keep doing it like we have been. Some of those scary "nationalized" or "socialist" healthcare systems are ones that simply require insurance for everyone. Even economists say that economically, we simply can't afford to NOT cover everyone anymore!
Although some of the national health care systems in other countries don't work well, most do and it's well documented that we pay much, much more for health care than almost any other developed country! The only foreign systems you usually hear about are the national ones that don't work well or you get scare stories about what's not perfect in those systems; you don't hear about the ones that DO work well because they're not "newsworthy" and because the American public has been told that those systems "ration" health care, are more costly, and don't cover the most expensive treatments.
Those arguments always make me laugh because we already ration healthcare based on the income of people or their employers and on the level of insurance that they have. No money for individual or company health insurance? In the US, that means no insurance or basic care, not even the basic care that helps keep you out of the ER, hospital, doctor's office, or the grave. Many of us who are insured already have to wait to see the doctor, i.e. we have to make an appointment and even then we may need to wait if the doctor is running late, especially if there's someone who has an emergency.
There are so many "hidden" costs in our system it isn't funny. Companies paying for insurance for their employees have to pay for the insurance for their employees, for Medicaire, and for higher insurance premiums to cover the uninsured that resort to ERs, etc. for health care. The insurance companies have not had any incentive up to now to truly reign in their administrative costs, but they've suddenly gotten motivated to do so. Check out this excerpt from a news article:
Blue Cross Blue Shield of Texas to shed 183 positions statewide
12:00 AM CDT on Thursday, August 13, 2009
By JASON ROBERSON / The Dallas Morning News
[email protected]
In preparation for an overhaul of health care, Blue Cross Blue Shield of Texas, the state's largest health insurer, with 4 million members, said Wednesday it will eliminate 183 positions.
While Congress and the nation debate health care legislation, the Richardson-based health insurer is hedging bets that at least one aspect will be agreed upon:
"Health insurers will be expected to further reduce administrative expenses," said Margaret Jarvis, spokeswoman for Blue Cross Blue Shield of Texas. (My emphasis)
If you think you're paying a lot for health insurance now and object to supporting others who can't pay for it, guess what? YOU ALREADY ARE!!!
When the uninsured can't afford insurance or trips to the doctor, they have to wait until it's basically a critical health issue and then go to the hospital ER and get care there (at taxpayer expense, often). Hospitals have to pass on those costs by charging more to people who have health insurance. Now the health insurance companies and HMOs are large enough that they are setting the prices that they'll pay and putting the hospitals in a squeeze, which the hospitals pass on to individuals who can afford it when their insurance doesn't cover it.
I'm well aware of the current system and what does and doesn't work through personal experience.
I got breast cancer at 38 and my employer had just decided to give health insurance to the senior people in the company, including yours truly. Even with doctors in the family, I might well have died due to lack of insurance. As it was, I didn't get preventive treatment that would have made surgery and treatment more effective and LOTS cheaper. I was young, healthy (everyone thought), and I couldn't afford to pay for individual insurance. If I'd even gone in for yearly checkups, I wouldn't have had to go through about 12 hours of cancer surgery.
I am currently covered under COBRA but due to a history of cancer and two genitacally-based diseases, if I can't get insured before it runs out, I'm screwed. I currently can't even afford the medicine I have to take every month; I'm paying for those with my unemployment insurance and student loans. I have other health problems that I should have treated (really bad heel spurs and arthritis in my hands) but I'm trying to save money in case I can't get health insurance after I leave college.
I'm overweight now but it hasn't caused ANY of the major health care problems that I currently have. I've worked all my adult life, often very hard and very long hours. I think it's stupid to have a system that will cause me to go to an ER or die instead of a system that, with regular checkups and generic medications, will keep me out of either. I'm not exaggerating the "die" part either; without daily medications that are relatively inexpensive I would be in the ER very, very often and/or in the grave.
Despite having good health care insurance, because the treatments I had to go through were very expensive, although I tried to pay all of my medical bills, I eventually had to declare bankruptcy due to the medical bills. That almost never happens in the other developed countries and most people there are shocked to here that it happens here in the US. I also haven't heard of too many of them saying that they want OUR system instead of the one they've got.
Insurance companies do everything they can to make it difficult for health care providers to get the money they are legitimately due. The insurance companies spend a huge chunk of the premium money you pay on people, paperwork, and systems that save them money by reducing their expenses (avoiding and delaying legitimate payments).
Although insurance companies are very secretive about the numbers, I've heard from sources I respect that as of about 10 years ago, up to 40% of your premiums went to paperwork. From what my doctors tell me, the amount of paperwork they have to do to get paid is more every year. At least one doctor said (as of about 3 years ago) that half of their income went solely to paying for staff to deal with the extra paperwork and time spent fighting with the half-dozen different insurance companies they dealt with. Not for the normal paperwork and billing any business does; just for dealing with insurance companies, each of which had different requirements and always tried to make it difficult to legitimately get money from them.
I had to quit seeing one of my doctors because he and the other doctors in his group either had to quit taking patients using insurance (of all kinds) or go out of business! They'd had to hike their rates (despite promising they wouldn't) because the insurance companies had figured out that (at that time) in Texas the insurance company could get away without paying the doctors for up to a year without any penalty. The doctors were putting out the service, the bill was ok'd by the insurance company, but the insurance company could earn interest over that year if they didn't pay the doctor on time, so the doctors simply were not getting paid when they had to pay their bills and then had to pay their staff even more to keep hassling the insurance company to pay up.
I've done a bit of research and have consulted the doctors in my family, and all of them say that the Obama plan is better than what we have now; if it gives the insurance companies some real competition (read government insurance program), healthy people as well as those with pre-existing conditions will go with the one that provides the best service at the lowest price. What a concept!
Currently, the insurance companies pretty much all follow the same practices and pretty much the same rates. Currently the govt. health care insurance plan (yes, that's what Medicaire and Medicaid really are, if you think about it) carries the people who are most likely to require more health care and more expensive health care. Put in a bunch of healthy premium-payers in that group and it makes sense to me that they can then afford to pay health care providers a reasonable rate and pay it within a reasonable amount of time.
Sorry for the length of the post; I feel strongly about universal health care and I also ramble on when I'm tired and I'm very, very tired right now.
Ann
Although not a doctor, I come from a family where both parents were doctors and my older brother is also one. Both of my parents (one a conservative and the other a liberal) agreed on one thing politically; Americans NEED to switch to universal health care coverage (NOT socialized) so that Americans can receive better care, be healthier, live longer, and have a more competitive economy.
The liberal one points out that it's ethically not right to let anyone die when you can help them (do unto others as you would have done to you), and the conservative pointed out that it didn't make economic sense and that, as a Christian, since Christ had said that how we treated the "least of us" was how we treated Him, it was unethical to not treat those in need.
Of course, they're both doctors so they're a bit biased, I guess, but then they were both willing to take pay cuts if the US did go with universal health care. In almost the same breath, they also pointed out that they could take a pay cut and still have the same amount of money, if not more, because they wouldn't have to dish out so much money for health care for the family and they and their children would be assured of getting decent health care. The conservative worked mostly in private practice but also worked for a while (until disabled) for the government. That person was, too put it mildly, quite unfriendly to the idea of any entity (insurers or government) telling her what treatment(s) would be covered, but still was adamant that universal care would be better than our current system.
There's a lot of scary stories being passed around, but all I know is what we currently have doesn't work and we need to try something that is less expensive and gives as good or better care. We're told that our choices will be taken away (most already have been), that care will be rationed (already is), that the level of care will be worse (not so), that we'll all have to pay increased taxes (as a community, we already are paying more - ask employers who then take it out of wages), and that the system will be less efficient (likely to be the reverse!).
We are the only developed country that doesn't have universal health care insurance or coverage (it doesn't have to be socialized, you know). We pay about 40 to 50% MORE on average and rank BELOW almost all of them on the common major indicators of health. We pay over 89% more per person than Canada for our healthcare! So they have waiting lines in Canada? At least when they're really ill, they can get treatment fast. They also get care that can prevent more expensive healthcare costs. THEY CAN ALSO CHOOSE TO GET ADDITIONAL PRIVATE INSURANCE TO COVER ANYTHING NOT COVERED BY THE SOCIALIZED SYSTEM (or pay out of pocket). And their system is one of the very few universal care systems that actually IS a truly socialized health care system. Almost all of the rest are some form of required insurance, usually a blend of public and private.
Remember when Americans had one of the highest average lifespans in the world? Not anymore! We've gone from way ahead of everyone else to dropping behind those of people who live in countries that require universal health care, even the countries whose systems are commonly maligned in the U.S. Most of them require that everyone have insurance but they use different methods; private insurance only, private and/or public, or public. Most use the private/public combination, which is what Obama has proposed.
A lot has been said about the new system taking away American's choices as related to health care. We already have many of our decisions made or dictated by insurance companies and by the very fact that we have so many uninsured people in the U.S.A. If you ask people you know, I think you'll find a surprising number who were told that the insurance company wouldn't pay for this or for that or only under certain circumstances. I know they've done it to me and to my doctors many times and I don't like going to see doctors to begin with, so I'm not going in for a bunch of stuff that I don't need. Of course, if you're one of the many (legal) workers in the U.S. that doesn't have insurance, your choices are very few to zip.
I think every American should read at least these three articles:
The Council on Foreign Relations "Taking The Measure Of Health Care In America" article at http://www.cfr.org/publication/13325/
An article from the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health at http://www.jhsph.edu/publichealthnews/press_releases/2005/anderson_healthspending.html
and, Wikipedia's page on Universal health care (at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_health_care)
Our current system that relies primarily on private insurance is too expensive and it's reducing our country's economic competitiveness, reducing our standard of living, and is increasingly covering fewer people and less treatment. We simply can't afford to keep doing it like we have been. Some of those scary "nationalized" or "socialist" healthcare systems are ones that simply require insurance for everyone. Even economists say that economically, we simply can't afford to NOT cover everyone anymore!
Although some of the national health care systems in other countries don't work well, most do and it's well documented that we pay much, much more for health care than almost any other developed country! The only foreign systems you usually hear about are the national ones that don't work well or you get scare stories about what's not perfect in those systems; you don't hear about the ones that DO work well because they're not "newsworthy" and because the American public has been told that those systems "ration" health care, are more costly, and don't cover the most expensive treatments.
Those arguments always make me laugh because we already ration healthcare based on the income of people or their employers and on the level of insurance that they have. No money for individual or company health insurance? In the US, that means no insurance or basic care, not even the basic care that helps keep you out of the ER, hospital, doctor's office, or the grave. Many of us who are insured already have to wait to see the doctor, i.e. we have to make an appointment and even then we may need to wait if the doctor is running late, especially if there's someone who has an emergency.
There are so many "hidden" costs in our system it isn't funny. Companies paying for insurance for their employees have to pay for the insurance for their employees, for Medicaire, and for higher insurance premiums to cover the uninsured that resort to ERs, etc. for health care. The insurance companies have not had any incentive up to now to truly reign in their administrative costs, but they've suddenly gotten motivated to do so. Check out this excerpt from a news article:
Blue Cross Blue Shield of Texas to shed 183 positions statewide
12:00 AM CDT on Thursday, August 13, 2009
By JASON ROBERSON / The Dallas Morning News
[email protected]
In preparation for an overhaul of health care, Blue Cross Blue Shield of Texas, the state's largest health insurer, with 4 million members, said Wednesday it will eliminate 183 positions.
While Congress and the nation debate health care legislation, the Richardson-based health insurer is hedging bets that at least one aspect will be agreed upon:
"Health insurers will be expected to further reduce administrative expenses," said Margaret Jarvis, spokeswoman for Blue Cross Blue Shield of Texas. (My emphasis)
If you think you're paying a lot for health insurance now and object to supporting others who can't pay for it, guess what? YOU ALREADY ARE!!!
When the uninsured can't afford insurance or trips to the doctor, they have to wait until it's basically a critical health issue and then go to the hospital ER and get care there (at taxpayer expense, often). Hospitals have to pass on those costs by charging more to people who have health insurance. Now the health insurance companies and HMOs are large enough that they are setting the prices that they'll pay and putting the hospitals in a squeeze, which the hospitals pass on to individuals who can afford it when their insurance doesn't cover it.
I'm well aware of the current system and what does and doesn't work through personal experience.
I got breast cancer at 38 and my employer had just decided to give health insurance to the senior people in the company, including yours truly. Even with doctors in the family, I might well have died due to lack of insurance. As it was, I didn't get preventive treatment that would have made surgery and treatment more effective and LOTS cheaper. I was young, healthy (everyone thought), and I couldn't afford to pay for individual insurance. If I'd even gone in for yearly checkups, I wouldn't have had to go through about 12 hours of cancer surgery.
I am currently covered under COBRA but due to a history of cancer and two genitacally-based diseases, if I can't get insured before it runs out, I'm screwed. I currently can't even afford the medicine I have to take every month; I'm paying for those with my unemployment insurance and student loans. I have other health problems that I should have treated (really bad heel spurs and arthritis in my hands) but I'm trying to save money in case I can't get health insurance after I leave college.
I'm overweight now but it hasn't caused ANY of the major health care problems that I currently have. I've worked all my adult life, often very hard and very long hours. I think it's stupid to have a system that will cause me to go to an ER or die instead of a system that, with regular checkups and generic medications, will keep me out of either. I'm not exaggerating the "die" part either; without daily medications that are relatively inexpensive I would be in the ER very, very often and/or in the grave.
Despite having good health care insurance, because the treatments I had to go through were very expensive, although I tried to pay all of my medical bills, I eventually had to declare bankruptcy due to the medical bills. That almost never happens in the other developed countries and most people there are shocked to here that it happens here in the US. I also haven't heard of too many of them saying that they want OUR system instead of the one they've got.
Insurance companies do everything they can to make it difficult for health care providers to get the money they are legitimately due. The insurance companies spend a huge chunk of the premium money you pay on people, paperwork, and systems that save them money by reducing their expenses (avoiding and delaying legitimate payments).
Although insurance companies are very secretive about the numbers, I've heard from sources I respect that as of about 10 years ago, up to 40% of your premiums went to paperwork. From what my doctors tell me, the amount of paperwork they have to do to get paid is more every year. At least one doctor said (as of about 3 years ago) that half of their income went solely to paying for staff to deal with the extra paperwork and time spent fighting with the half-dozen different insurance companies they dealt with. Not for the normal paperwork and billing any business does; just for dealing with insurance companies, each of which had different requirements and always tried to make it difficult to legitimately get money from them.
I had to quit seeing one of my doctors because he and the other doctors in his group either had to quit taking patients using insurance (of all kinds) or go out of business! They'd had to hike their rates (despite promising they wouldn't) because the insurance companies had figured out that (at that time) in Texas the insurance company could get away without paying the doctors for up to a year without any penalty. The doctors were putting out the service, the bill was ok'd by the insurance company, but the insurance company could earn interest over that year if they didn't pay the doctor on time, so the doctors simply were not getting paid when they had to pay their bills and then had to pay their staff even more to keep hassling the insurance company to pay up.
I've done a bit of research and have consulted the doctors in my family, and all of them say that the Obama plan is better than what we have now; if it gives the insurance companies some real competition (read government insurance program), healthy people as well as those with pre-existing conditions will go with the one that provides the best service at the lowest price. What a concept!
Currently, the insurance companies pretty much all follow the same practices and pretty much the same rates. Currently the govt. health care insurance plan (yes, that's what Medicaire and Medicaid really are, if you think about it) carries the people who are most likely to require more health care and more expensive health care. Put in a bunch of healthy premium-payers in that group and it makes sense to me that they can then afford to pay health care providers a reasonable rate and pay it within a reasonable amount of time.
Sorry for the length of the post; I feel strongly about universal health care and I also ramble on when I'm tired and I'm very, very tired right now.
Ann
Quote:
BRAVA!
BRAVA!
Last edited:
- Apr 15, 2009
- 185
- 1
- 119
Ok...one thing people keep stating as a reason for the nationalized health care is 'we're already paying for it...so why not just REALLY pay for it"! I mean seriously folks. I'm TIRED of paying taxes. I'm TIRED of paying EVERY two weeks, then at the end of the fiscal year....while people in less fortunate situations (either by chance, lack of exposure,education, opportunities, etc) have the benefit of having a lot of their expenses covered by ME paying MY taxes.
Do unto others etc. That's what churches, charities and other non-profit entities are for. If I WANT to pay for my neighbor....I will give them money....I don't like ANYONE removing money from my accounts to pay for them out of some "moral" context. Oh yeah...my neighbors HAVE NO health insurance....NOT because they don't qualify....but because they CHOOSE NOT to spend the $$$. How does that affect ME? Well...when THEIR kids get STREP and other various illnesses and the parents CHOOSE NOT to take their kids in for treatment even after being advised by the school to do so....MY KID gets sick...OVER AND OVER AND OVER again. Now...the husbands are self-employed and the wives don't care to work. (One of the moms used to work in the medical field until she decided she didn't like working and wanted to be at home and drink all day). But a visit to the FREE CLINIC in our town would be too much of her time and energy...so the strep cycle continues.
I had to listen to a friend of mine bemoan her sisters' tale of how "horrible" having her child at the city hospital was....but guess what? Her sister didn't pay a DIME for the whole thing. She was collecting state monies during her pregnancy and had a free delivery, hospital stay and post delivery care (food, supplies, daycare, etc). Those are services MY tax dollars pay for. And she wanted to spend all day complaining about what she WASN'T getting. I'm sorry....I'm sorry I work every day...LOOOONG hours, dutifully pay my taxes so her sister, can pop out babies and get $25 a month rent, free food and diapers, health coverage for her baby AND free child care...while I pay for HER, HER baby's needs and childcare....OH...and MY childs' NON-reduced childcare costs. I might live in a slightly better neighborhood than her sister, but after all these taxes...I'm having a hard time paying for that house...especially since the market crashed! By my taxes are increasing.
I'm all for 'helping out others'....but I don't think people should EXPECT freebies. I've worked for what I have. And I'm still paying for others. Heck...I know more illegals that work harder and longer than most welfare recipients! Ain't that a kick in the butt?!
My mom was a teacher and has become increasingly socialist in nature. Funny thing: she taught American History for 34 years! But now that she stands to benefit from all the gov't programs...she's MUCH more PRO-BIG gov't than she EVER was! SCARY!
I didn't want the gov't to bail out the banks. They didn't listen to me. I didn't want them to bail out the auto industry (if I wanted to buy american, i WOULD)...they didn't listen again. I didn't want them to bail out AIG....they sure did. Bush started the "big gov't" wheel REALLY running....and Obama is just 'running with it'.
What was that quote from Thomas Jefferson:? "any gov't big enough to give it's citizens EVERYTHING they want....is big enough to take EVERYTHING AWAY from them."
This country was founded and created by those who wanted to "do for themselves". Now it is full of people who want "someone else to do for them". I would LOVE to quit work, pop out about 4 more kids and get free stuff. So I'd live in a poorer neighborhood, but I'd have more time to do whatever I wanted to. Or just sit around! Who cares? Someone else pays my electric bills in winter (Thank you Chavez and Citgo Oil...eventhough you spew anti-US sentiment throughout the world) and my medical bills are "forgiven". Heck I'd take more hardworking illegals than "citizens" who believe they shouldn't have to work, the gov't should give them housing, food, clothing etc....and THEN COMPLAIN about what they're GIVEN!
Ok...sorry about the rant. It seems our country is being infiltrated (from within) by people who have become VERY accustomed to having it 'easy'. If paying higher taxes and having someone dictate to you what's covered or not makes you happy....fine...get an HMO. I had one...and it sucked....BAD! I'm willing to pay more out of pocket...even if it means struggling more....to have a BETTER CHOICE and have people give me care vs. not want to be 'bothered with me'.
Maybe "when" we get universal healthcare....we can have the swedish 12 months of maternity leave thing too! (for mothers AND fathers). Then at least it MIGHT be worth it!!!
Do unto others etc. That's what churches, charities and other non-profit entities are for. If I WANT to pay for my neighbor....I will give them money....I don't like ANYONE removing money from my accounts to pay for them out of some "moral" context. Oh yeah...my neighbors HAVE NO health insurance....NOT because they don't qualify....but because they CHOOSE NOT to spend the $$$. How does that affect ME? Well...when THEIR kids get STREP and other various illnesses and the parents CHOOSE NOT to take their kids in for treatment even after being advised by the school to do so....MY KID gets sick...OVER AND OVER AND OVER again. Now...the husbands are self-employed and the wives don't care to work. (One of the moms used to work in the medical field until she decided she didn't like working and wanted to be at home and drink all day). But a visit to the FREE CLINIC in our town would be too much of her time and energy...so the strep cycle continues.
I had to listen to a friend of mine bemoan her sisters' tale of how "horrible" having her child at the city hospital was....but guess what? Her sister didn't pay a DIME for the whole thing. She was collecting state monies during her pregnancy and had a free delivery, hospital stay and post delivery care (food, supplies, daycare, etc). Those are services MY tax dollars pay for. And she wanted to spend all day complaining about what she WASN'T getting. I'm sorry....I'm sorry I work every day...LOOOONG hours, dutifully pay my taxes so her sister, can pop out babies and get $25 a month rent, free food and diapers, health coverage for her baby AND free child care...while I pay for HER, HER baby's needs and childcare....OH...and MY childs' NON-reduced childcare costs. I might live in a slightly better neighborhood than her sister, but after all these taxes...I'm having a hard time paying for that house...especially since the market crashed! By my taxes are increasing.
I'm all for 'helping out others'....but I don't think people should EXPECT freebies. I've worked for what I have. And I'm still paying for others. Heck...I know more illegals that work harder and longer than most welfare recipients! Ain't that a kick in the butt?!
My mom was a teacher and has become increasingly socialist in nature. Funny thing: she taught American History for 34 years! But now that she stands to benefit from all the gov't programs...she's MUCH more PRO-BIG gov't than she EVER was! SCARY!
I didn't want the gov't to bail out the banks. They didn't listen to me. I didn't want them to bail out the auto industry (if I wanted to buy american, i WOULD)...they didn't listen again. I didn't want them to bail out AIG....they sure did. Bush started the "big gov't" wheel REALLY running....and Obama is just 'running with it'.
What was that quote from Thomas Jefferson:? "any gov't big enough to give it's citizens EVERYTHING they want....is big enough to take EVERYTHING AWAY from them."
This country was founded and created by those who wanted to "do for themselves". Now it is full of people who want "someone else to do for them". I would LOVE to quit work, pop out about 4 more kids and get free stuff. So I'd live in a poorer neighborhood, but I'd have more time to do whatever I wanted to. Or just sit around! Who cares? Someone else pays my electric bills in winter (Thank you Chavez and Citgo Oil...eventhough you spew anti-US sentiment throughout the world) and my medical bills are "forgiven". Heck I'd take more hardworking illegals than "citizens" who believe they shouldn't have to work, the gov't should give them housing, food, clothing etc....and THEN COMPLAIN about what they're GIVEN!
Ok...sorry about the rant. It seems our country is being infiltrated (from within) by people who have become VERY accustomed to having it 'easy'. If paying higher taxes and having someone dictate to you what's covered or not makes you happy....fine...get an HMO. I had one...and it sucked....BAD! I'm willing to pay more out of pocket...even if it means struggling more....to have a BETTER CHOICE and have people give me care vs. not want to be 'bothered with me'.
Maybe "when" we get universal healthcare....we can have the swedish 12 months of maternity leave thing too! (for mothers AND fathers). Then at least it MIGHT be worth it!!!
Universal health care does work in some countries - But being from BC let me tell I sure do love being able to go to the doctor and not have to worry about how much its going to cost or if my insurance will cover it. I know how much I have to pay a month and that is it. And yep there are still alot of flaws with our system like the waits but no system is perfect and I have heard of horror stories from in the states of people scared to take a sick child to the doctor cause they could not afford it. I couldnt imagaine that.
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I understand many of your complaints. I don't blame you for being upset at all.
Here's my story -
My three sons all got strep throat from the neighbor kid - who went to the doctor, but the mother didn't bother to let anyone know he had it at all, so my kids all got it from playing with him.
Her child was put on antibiotics - mine got echinacea tincture. When my children cleared up and healed, her child still had strep for another week beyond that time.
I do not have a job, I am "retired" and so is my husband. I am 45 and he is 54. We do not collect govt. money, nor do we have any debt, because we do not have a credit card and do not buy things we cannot pay cash for right then.
I work harder now (on the farm) than I ever did punching someone's time clock. Difference is, it is cheaper to work for myself than to work for someone else. I don't mind putting the sweat into the job, because I get to reap all the rewards.
My tax return last year was even up - paid enough, didn't get anything back (in other words, didn't underpay/didn't overpay).
No, neither I nor hubby were born rich - we were poor for many years, and at times I had to choose between toilet paper or gas in the car. We had debt (to the tune of about 30 thou. not including the House Mortgage) - we worked our butts off to pay it off. Then we made a pledge not to have debt ever again. I also recall tapping grandparents to help buy my kids winter coats or shoes for school.
I am not a college graduate, I am not a financial wizard - if we can do it, anyone can do it.
but - as long as someone is giving promises of the easy way out - there are going to be folks out there who will take it - no matter if it costs them more (and not just money) or not.
We bought this farm with cash - built it up with cash, and are still building it (as cheaply as we can) without a credit card or a loan or any debt.
it wasn't easy and at times it truly sucked - but the feeling of paying off those bills, and finally paying off the last bill - it was like King Kong on Cocaine.
meri
I understand many of your complaints. I don't blame you for being upset at all.
Here's my story -
My three sons all got strep throat from the neighbor kid - who went to the doctor, but the mother didn't bother to let anyone know he had it at all, so my kids all got it from playing with him.
Her child was put on antibiotics - mine got echinacea tincture. When my children cleared up and healed, her child still had strep for another week beyond that time.
I do not have a job, I am "retired" and so is my husband. I am 45 and he is 54. We do not collect govt. money, nor do we have any debt, because we do not have a credit card and do not buy things we cannot pay cash for right then.
I work harder now (on the farm) than I ever did punching someone's time clock. Difference is, it is cheaper to work for myself than to work for someone else. I don't mind putting the sweat into the job, because I get to reap all the rewards.
My tax return last year was even up - paid enough, didn't get anything back (in other words, didn't underpay/didn't overpay).
No, neither I nor hubby were born rich - we were poor for many years, and at times I had to choose between toilet paper or gas in the car. We had debt (to the tune of about 30 thou. not including the House Mortgage) - we worked our butts off to pay it off. Then we made a pledge not to have debt ever again. I also recall tapping grandparents to help buy my kids winter coats or shoes for school.
I am not a college graduate, I am not a financial wizard - if we can do it, anyone can do it.
but - as long as someone is giving promises of the easy way out - there are going to be folks out there who will take it - no matter if it costs them more (and not just money) or not.
We bought this farm with cash - built it up with cash, and are still building it (as cheaply as we can) without a credit card or a loan or any debt.
it wasn't easy and at times it truly sucked - but the feeling of paying off those bills, and finally paying off the last bill - it was like King Kong on Cocaine.
meri
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Thank you Angili.
My story is very similar to yours ( including illness), and I agree with everything you wrote there. We can not afford what we have now. It has to change. I don't agree with everything that's been proposed, but I do think it's a heck of a lot better than what we have.
I can't get health coverage because of a previous illness. No insurance will touch me. I am too much a risk they say. I did manage to find ONE company that said, sure we will cover you, the premium will be 6,000 dollars a month. This is a company that most people are very familiar with. Supposedly non profit. I sure as heck can't afford that. When people get seriously ill, they should not have to risk losing everything they worked so hard for.
I had cobra at one point, but when cobra ran out, I had nothing. I still have nothing. I do hope I don't get sick again, but if I do I'll deal with it as best I can. I don't know if I'll have health insurance when/if that day comes, but hopefully I will. I hope in the future people like myself don't go through what I went through without health insurance. It's not a trip you want to go on, trust me.
Bluemoon
Thank you Angili.
My story is very similar to yours ( including illness), and I agree with everything you wrote there. We can not afford what we have now. It has to change. I don't agree with everything that's been proposed, but I do think it's a heck of a lot better than what we have.
I can't get health coverage because of a previous illness. No insurance will touch me. I am too much a risk they say. I did manage to find ONE company that said, sure we will cover you, the premium will be 6,000 dollars a month. This is a company that most people are very familiar with. Supposedly non profit. I sure as heck can't afford that. When people get seriously ill, they should not have to risk losing everything they worked so hard for.
I had cobra at one point, but when cobra ran out, I had nothing. I still have nothing. I do hope I don't get sick again, but if I do I'll deal with it as best I can. I don't know if I'll have health insurance when/if that day comes, but hopefully I will. I hope in the future people like myself don't go through what I went through without health insurance. It's not a trip you want to go on, trust me.
Bluemoon
If folks don't want "socialized medicine" or socialized anything else, then they ought to be willing to stand up and agree to opt out/sign out of their right to receive Medicare and Social Security when they retire.
Until that happens en masse, I view all the talk about how our government shouldn't control anything or help anybody as absolute nonsense.
Universal healthcare has been working quite well in many nations around the world for many years. I have relatives in Canada, Denmark and Japan, for instance, who all *love* their health systems.
What happened to our American belief that government is accountable to the people and run by the people. Do we not believe that anymore? We are talking about government as though it is not us. I, for one, believe it *is* us, that it reflects and responds to our efforts. So when we criticize government in our democracy, I believe we should look at ourselves and how we are helping or hurting one another with our choices.
I've lived without health care. I had the opportunity of private insurance taken away from me (at any price) when I was diagnosed with something big as a young college student. Those who think health care should only be for the wealthy maybe haven't lost their health in their youth and don't know what it is like to feel like a beggar for treatment. I survived...but I don't like watching people go thru what I did and listening to healthy people (knock on wood, every one of you!) say they don't in any way feel the urge to help.
My young family practice physician nephew is a *huge* proponent of national health care. He says he can't bear the heart ache of knowing that some people in his community can't come to see him when they need help because of cost. He does a lot of pro bono work. He says that the current medical system is really good for doctors financially (you should see the kind of home he's got and the vacations he can take...) He says a national plan will be, in some ways, a sacrifice for doctors. But he is all for that happening because he wants to, first and formost, help people and make their lives better.
Until that happens en masse, I view all the talk about how our government shouldn't control anything or help anybody as absolute nonsense.
Universal healthcare has been working quite well in many nations around the world for many years. I have relatives in Canada, Denmark and Japan, for instance, who all *love* their health systems.
What happened to our American belief that government is accountable to the people and run by the people. Do we not believe that anymore? We are talking about government as though it is not us. I, for one, believe it *is* us, that it reflects and responds to our efforts. So when we criticize government in our democracy, I believe we should look at ourselves and how we are helping or hurting one another with our choices.
I've lived without health care. I had the opportunity of private insurance taken away from me (at any price) when I was diagnosed with something big as a young college student. Those who think health care should only be for the wealthy maybe haven't lost their health in their youth and don't know what it is like to feel like a beggar for treatment. I survived...but I don't like watching people go thru what I did and listening to healthy people (knock on wood, every one of you!) say they don't in any way feel the urge to help.
My young family practice physician nephew is a *huge* proponent of national health care. He says he can't bear the heart ache of knowing that some people in his community can't come to see him when they need help because of cost. He does a lot of pro bono work. He says that the current medical system is really good for doctors financially (you should see the kind of home he's got and the vacations he can take...) He says a national plan will be, in some ways, a sacrifice for doctors. But he is all for that happening because he wants to, first and formost, help people and make their lives better.
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I think healthcare is already controlled by big industry.......I'm all for it.
I think healthcare is already controlled by big industry.......I'm all for it.
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