A Heritage of Perfection: Standard-bred Large Fowl

[bnjrob]

Hello everyone. I've been raising chickens for about 7 years now and became interested in breeding to the standard about 4 years ago. I currently have silver laced wyandottes and black copper Marans. The two breeds are in separate stages in relation to their adherence to their standard, but I could really use advice on both. I was wondering how I could go about finding mentors for them? I'm mainly looking for someone I can share photos of them with and ask questions related to culling and setting up breeding pens. There is only one show a year here in Louisiana for them and it was cancelled last year, so I've had little success finding anyone local to me.

The wyandottes I feel are a better quality than the Marans, but I culled down to just a pair and there are qualities I don't see myself able to correct mating the two together. The main one being leg color.





I have a much larger flock of Marans, but they vary widely in type and the egg color is mediocre at best. I purchased five pullets last year from better stock and have already culled one from the group.





Thank you to anyone who could point me in the right direction. I highly enjoy this hobby and hope to contribute to the breeds I raise, not hinder them.

fowlman01 here on BYC is an APA judge and is very helpful if you are willing to take the criticism. Sending you a message.

 

[Wisher1000]

Angela, it is my understanding that Texas will not allow anyone to bring poultry into Texas for shows. Correct me if I am wrong, but I was told that by my breeding partner who is well respected and a dear friend. She is permitted to transport poultry in (and out) because she is NPIP certified and a Texas resident. It doesn't make a lot of sense to me, but that was my understanding.

 

[forgetful]

Thank you all for the help. I've received a few private messages pointing me in the right direction. I've also heard about the closed borders in Texas, and while I could try to drive out for a show, I would really like to enter or bring birds to better be advised. I am still searching for a mentor, but in the mean time am preparing my birds for spring. I've done some evaluating of my Marans and thought it might be beneficial to post my work here for those who are also new to the whole endeavor of breeding to the standard. I would like to mention they are far from anything to talk about, but I think I can make a step in the right direction this year if I make some smart decisions. I also realize that more than just these photos should be considered when making breeding decisions, and each bird will be held and evaluated before a final choice is made.

I have several older hens I will be moving to the laying flock, and four pullets that will be replacing them. While their type and color is still pretty bad, it is much better than the original birds that look like nothing more than mixed breeds. All pullets are 6 months old and half sisters, and the unrelated cockbird is almost 2 years old.

Green band




Green leg band- Her tail is still growing in, but appears to have a good angle so far. Shank feathering is correct. Copper color needs to be more prominent and extend fully to the top of the head and ear. Her back is far too long and chest is not deep enough, though I believe it may fill more with maturity. Thigh feathering is moderate.



Red band




Red leg band- Her hackle color is nice and vivid, but it needs to fully extend to the top of her head and ear. She has color leakage on her chest. Tail angle appears too high with incorrect slope of back. Her chest has a good fullness to it that should improve with maturity and shank feathering is correct. Thigh feathering is too loose



Cockbird


Cockbird- His back and tail angle are correct, but he is overall too upright and short of back. He needs tighter feathering on his thighs. Wattles are overly large and comb is not correct. Tail is too spread vertically. His color is incorrect and his ear is black. Stubs are present between the inner and middle toe



Yellow band



(Green band pullet can be seen on the left in the photo above ^)

Yellow band- Her hackle color is lacking and does not reach the top of her head or earlobe. Her back is too long (though I believe her tail angle may be correct?) Her wing carriage is good and shank feathering is correct. Thigh feathering is too loose



Blue band



Blue band- I was unable to get a good profile shot of her, and only have front views. Her hackle color is my favorite. It does not leak into her chest and extends to the top of her head, but is still absent from her ear. Shank feathering is correct. I like the tight feathering of her thigh. However it appears her back and tail angle are wrong. I will have to reevaluate her in the yard to be sure.


My question for you all is if hatching this spring from the cockbird and pullets would be worthwhile or a complete disaster. I'm considering hatching and seeing how the offspring come out, then just tossing the new pullets in the laying pen and cockerels in the pot if they don't turn out how I hope. I'm thinking that the cockbird can slightly shorten backs while more firmly cementing a correct slope to the back and tail. However I'm concerned he may muddle the hackle color in the generations to come.

I had another unrelated cockerel I was considering as a breeder, but he ended up being a mess type-wise and having side sprigs in his comb. There aren't many shining examples of the breed I can obtain a cockerel from

Thank you for any advice that you can administer and I apologize for the monster of a post.

 

[bnjrob]

My question for you all is if hatching this spring from the cockbird and pullets would be worthwhile or a complete disaster. I'm considering hatching and seeing how the offspring come out, then just tossing the new pullets in the laying pen and cockerels in the pot if they don't turn out how I hope. I'm thinking that the cockbird can slightly shorten backs while more firmly cementing a correct slope to the back and tail. However I'm concerned he may muddle the hackle color in the generations to come.

I had another unrelated cockerel I was considering as a breeder, but he ended up being a mess type-wise and having side sprigs in his comb. There aren't many shining examples of the breed I can obtain a cockerel from

Thank you for any advice that you can administer and I apologize for the monster of a post.

I don't think that it would be a disaster to use what you have. There are some people that always seem to say to throw away your birds and get better ones - but that isn't always realistic. Yes, it's faster to see results of breeding choices by getting birds that are more *perfect*, but it still doesn't guarantee that the offspring are going to be perfect either. It's a balancing act when you're breeding to strengthen the desired traits and offset faults in the two birds you're mating together. I've bred birds together with disqualifying traits in them because they had another trait that was important enough that I was willing to do the culling work in the offspring to deal with the DQ traits I perpetuated with that mating. And I'm glad I did it because I am seeing the positive results I was looking for in the successive generations and the DQ trait is not coming out in every bird, so as I continue to get farther away from that mating, that DQ trait pops up less frequently. It's up to you whether or not you feel that you enjoy your birds enough to stick with them for the long haul, no matter how long it takes to get results you're looking for. Some folks want immediate show-ready birds from most of their hatchings, and other folks are cool with making improvements at a slower pace.

 

[nanasacres]

I've had them now for two breeding season...beginning my third.

These are so beautiful! Your work is definitely paying off.

 

[NanaKat]

I've had [the Bantam Delawares] now for two breeding season...beginning my third.

Very, very cool! I don't know much about bantams. Do you have any clue how they "made" these? Where did you get them? How do they conform to the expected (standard) weights, etc., of the breed? Do you plan to show them? If you hadn't told me they were bantam, I'd never have guessed. MAYBE by the way the male is holding his wings ... but LF Delaware males will hold their wings like that, too. Ooops ... this is the LF thread. Maybe I should ask you these questions elsewhere?

I would have to research their history to tell you how these were made. The breed stock originally came from a breeder in Hutchinson Kansas. I got my birds from a friend who had purchased from Kansas. The weights and size meet the SOP standards. I don't show yet, but the breeder from Kansas did show this line. I used to have some lf Delaware and enjoyed them too. These bantam are delightful in personality and hold their own around the large fowl breeds.

 

[Wisher1000]

I was thrilled to have Mr. Bob Rhodes of Massachusetts come to my place and help me select my breeders for this spring. He is a master breeder and fifth generation chicken man. He has 80 years of experience and is my breeding partner. He was very complimentary of my birds and progress and even told my husband that my birds were the best in the country! I was humbled. He is a wonderful man and I enjoyed his visit immensely!


I now have two pens with a cock and five hens, each as well as 10+ "spare" hens in the egg flock. I kept two additional cocks and I'm taking the best of the culls to Newnan to show and offer for sale. I am not confident that they will sell, nobody knows what they are!

 

[kimberly35042]

I know what they are and would be happy to take your "culls". I've yet to find my niche egg layer.

 

[gjensen]

I was thrilled to have Mr. Bob Rhodes of Massachusetts come to my place and help me select my breeders for this spring. He is a master breeder and fifth generation chicken man. He has 80 years of experience and is my breeding partner. He was very complimentary of my birds and progress and even told my husband that my birds were the best in the country! I was humbled. He is a wonderful man and I enjoyed his visit immensely!


I now have two pens with a cock and five hens, each as well as 10+ "spare" hens in the egg flock. I kept two additional cocks and I'm taking the best of the culls to Newnan to show and offer for sale. I am not confident that they will sell, nobody knows what they are!

The opportunity to work with this man is priceless. Maybe you will be able to pass it down and work with a young man or woman along the way.

 

[Sweetpea325]

Does anyone know of a local breeder of Plymouth Rocks (not barred) in the Maryland, Virginia, Delaware, Pennsylvania (lower) areas? I'm looking for chicks.