A Heritage of Perfection: Standard-bred Large Fowl

[gjensen]

Hi,
If you are selling "started birds" only, how old is that? I don't want to sell chicks or eggs.
But last season I think I kept them too long, selling at 4 months. I fed a lot of birds I didn't keep
and it was really costly. What is the earliest age I should be able to see all the features I need
to evaluate for culling?
Happy New Year!
Karen

When they are fully matured. LOL. That is the earliest age that you are able "to see all of the features". There is no way around that. That is something that we have to accept.

That is not to say that you could not cull for particular points along the way. You certainly can.

 

[BGMatt]

When they are fully matured. LOL. That is the earliest age that you are able "to see all of the features". There is no way around that. That is something that we have to accept.

That is not to say that you could not cull for particular points along the way. You certainly can.

It also depends greatly on your experience with both your line and the breed. As an example, I can cull my Langshans much earlier than I would be able to cull...let's say Cochins. Where as an experienced Cochin breeder would be the opposite.

 

[Yellow House Farm]

It also depends greatly on your experience with both your line and the breed. As an example, I can cull my Langshans much earlier than I would be able to cull...let's say Cochins. Where as an experienced Cochin breeder would be the opposite.

This is so true and hints at a a deeper truth. Much--much, indeed--in poultry is learned by working with the same birds for consecutive years. We have to commit if we want to really learn the process, and it's not something that happen in two or three years, although it is something one can begin to understand and appreciate in that time. Once you can start seeing change and when others can start seeing change, you begin to understand that these breeds were created over many, many years, and you can't cheat the system.

BGMatt is striking on one of the many benefits, both to one's learning and to one's pocketbook, of sticking with the same breed. Sticking with one breed eventually allows you to understand and reasonably predict their growth patterns. The longer you raise a breed, the earlier you can cull confidently. It is referred to as bottom culling. There are more and more traits that you simply won't settle for, so you can eliminate stock on those grounds alone. At first it's about DQs and then faults, but eventually it's more subtle things such as comparing cockerels of like age. You will begin to see repetitive body types, and your past experience will allow you to cull birds you might have been too reticent to call in prior years. Egregious color flaws might become visible earlier, which allows you to lighten the feed bill.

Also, the ability to bottom cull allows you to hatch more because you'll be able to adjust your population appropriately as birds grow that they might not overcrowd your infrastructure, which is one of the worst evils of poor husbandry.

 

[BGMatt]

This is so true and hints at a a deeper truth.  Much--much, indeed--in poultry is learned by working with the same birds for consecutive years.  We have to commit if we want to really learn the process, and it's not something that happen in two or three years, although it is something one can begin to understand and appreciate in that time.  Once you can start seeing change and when others can start seeing change, you begin to understand that these breeds were created over many, many years, and you can't cheat the system.

BGMatt is striking on one of the many benefits, both to one's learning and to one's pocketbook, of sticking with the same breed.  Sticking with one breed eventually allows you to understand and reasonably predict their growth patterns.  The longer you raise a breed, the earlier you can cull confidently.  It is referred to as bottom culling.  There are more and more traits that you simply won't settle for, so you can eliminate stock on those grounds alone.  At first it's about DQs and then faults, but eventually it's more subtle things such as comparing cockerels of like age.  You will begin to see repetitive body types, and your past experience will allow you to cull birds you might have been too reticent to call in prior years.  Egregious color flaws might become visible earlier, which allows you to lighten the feed bill.

Also, the ability to bottom cull allows you to hatch more because you'll be able to adjust your population appropriately as birds grow that they might not overcrowd your infrastructure, which is one of the worst evils of poor husbandry.

It also lets you know what faults will fix themselves as adult birds and which ones won't. For example: I was at a friend's place that raises Jersey Giants and I saw some young cockerels that were standing a little close at the hock. They noticed and told me that with their Giants they will broaden and end up fine with age, seeing those birds this fall, they were right. With my Langshans, this doesn't happen (I don't know why) and I cull Langshans standing like that at that age (those legs need to be straight by 3-4 months). Just like I know that if my cockerels and pullets have too sharp a break at the tail when they're 4-5 months and look long in back, that's just fine because when their saddle or cushion fills in and tail coverts it will be perfect.

 

[gjensen]

Quote:
I agree to both points. We are discussing different birds, true. They do develop in different time frames. We can certainly cull "along the way". A pinched tail @ 10 wks, is not going to magically open up later etc. There is much that we can separate ourselves from whenever it is evident, and when we choose. The original question was when can everything be evaluated, and I still hold to that we have to let them finish in order to do a final and full evaluation.

 

[3riverschick]

This is so true and hints at a a deeper truth. Much--much, indeed--in poultry is learned by working with the same birds for consecutive years. .....
BGMatt is striking on one of the many benefits, both to one's learning and to one's pocketbook, of sticking with the same breed. .... Egregious color flaws might become visible earlier, which allows you to lighten the feed bill.

Hi,
I found this true with my Light Sussex. I watched mine over 2 year and found a difference in chick down color which will allow me to cull for proper hackle color before the feathers start to come in. This is going to save me wads of money not having to grow out wrong hackled chicks..
Happy Holidays,
Karen

 

[KPenley]

Does the APA National change locations every year? Or is it always the first weekend in December in Knoxville? We're trying to plan hatching schedules for shows.TIA

 

[Fred's Hens]

Modesto California is next up. Yes, it rotates geographically. But the Knoxville show will held same time, same place.

Poultry Show Central has details of the various shows. Good site.

 

[KPenley]

Thank you!

 

[Kinmera]

Hello all,

Normally I lurk and soak up the wealth of knowledge here, but I now find myself in need of some advice.

I am building my first sets of breeding pens this year and would like some input on size and anything else I might need to know in setting them up. I'm shopping for a toe punch also for tagging. I'm also curious about thoughts on wing banding for identification?

I will be breeding orpingtons and white rocks. My daughter will be breeding Sumatras.