A Heritage of Perfection: Standard-bred Large Fowl

[Ifish]

Thanks again.

The New Hampshire was tops on our list when we first started lookig. I thought maybe some of the old farmers around here would have some. Everyone we talked to said that they haven't seen a New Hampshire in years. They also said that they were mean and probably not be good for my daughter. While at the Farm Show I asked a couple people I met about them as well. Basically got the same answer. Aggressive breed. So I scrubbed them from the list, but always thought that there has to be some lines that aren't aggressive.

Definitely interested in the New Hampshire and I'll see what I can find online as far as breeders.

Is there a difference between the German New Hampshire and the New Hampshire?

 

[Greywolf1962]

I have 2 NH hens and they are the sweetest birds in my flock.

 

[Sydney Acres]

Thanks again.

The New Hampshire was tops on our list when we first started lookig. I thought maybe some of the old farmers around here would have some. Everyone we talked to said that they haven't seen a New Hampshire in years. They also said that they were mean and probably not be good for my daughter. While at the Farm Show I asked a couple people I met about them as well. Basically got the same answer. Aggressive breed. So I scrubbed them from the list, but always thought that there has to be some lines that aren't aggressive.

Definitely interested in the New Hampshire and I'll see what I can find online as far as breeders.

Is there a difference between the German New Hampshire and the New Hampshire?

If you can find a New Hampshire breeder that had young children, it's a good bet that the bad attitudes have already been selected out of that line. It's often the hatchery lines that are mean.

 

[fowlman01]

Thanks again.

The New Hampshire was tops on our list when we first started lookig. I thought maybe some of the old farmers around here would have some. Everyone we talked to said that they haven't seen a New Hampshire in years. They also said that they were mean and probably not be good for my daughter. While at the Farm Show I asked a couple people I met about them as well. Basically got the same answer. Aggressive breed. So I scrubbed them from the list, but always thought that there has to be some lines that aren't aggressive.

Definitely interested in the New Hampshire and I'll see what I can find online as far as breeders.

Is there a difference between the German New Hampshire and the New Hampshire?

I have never found them to be mean. The hatchery type could very well be mean, but I don't run into mean males when I am judging either. Go to the New Hampshire thread and ask who would be the best person to get them from if you are interested in them. There are German imports and the American type New Hamps. Many of them are hybrids of the two and most people frankly don't know what they have. Either would work well for your needs. If you find a source, you can PM me and I will tell you if they are a real breeder or just someone hatching whatever they have without regard to any of he New Hamp qualities. It is very easy to reproduce chickens, but it is very difficult to breed to a written Standard and very few on here know how to do that.

Walt

 

[neopolitancrazy]

I need to ask a question about breeding to the Standard, and how different generations interpret the Standard.

After doing my level best to get as good quality Dorkings as are available these days, I could not get a fertile egg out of them this year. My source breeder could not fill all his Dorking orders last year and is not offering any for sale this year. I went to a local show, (the Bluebonnet Classic, 1800 birds and the largest in TX,) hoping to find other Dorkings. I found Blue Laced Red Wyandottes instead, and brought home 2 cockerel/pullet pairs.

I have been reading up on them, and have found quite a disparity between the shape in Schilling's portrait and current desired exhibition shape, namely the Schilling birds were less fluffy, more heart-shaped rather than the globular birds currently fashionable. So do I breed towards the Schilling shape or the current shape?
Best wishes,
Angela

 

[Wisher1000]

Ohhhhhhh, what a can of worms to open. That is a tumultuous topic.

My best answer is........ what do you want to breed? Do you want birds that win in shows, or birds that are as close to standard as possible?

My choice is to breed to standard and hope that occasionally there will be a man (or woman) judging that knows what he's looking at and will place them appropriately. I would rather lose with a correct bird than win with one that is wrong.

ACTUALLY, something along these lines happened to me at the Ohio Nationals last November. I have only begun attempting to breed Silver Campines to standard. Last spring, I hatched my first generation from breeders I managed to acquire from Texas and Minnesota. There were about eleven Campines entered. One was a rooster from Maine that the breeder brought me. Four were from my partner in Texas who was there with me. Six of them were ones I brought (not all were raised by me) and one was 3/4 Silver Campine and one quarter Silver laced Wyandotte. I knew what she was. I knew what was wrong with her. She had some good points, for a Campine, and she had some faults, mostly with her barring. The one reason I brought her was because she had the size that I wanted in my hens. She was a HOSS. Nice full breast, heavy in your hand, and just solid. She took best of breed! I laughed out loud! I knew she was not the best (and not the worst) and I knew why she won. She was simply BIGGER than the others. I immediately knew that THAT particular judge was not familiar with the particulars of the Campine breed - Who is, other than people who are interested in them? And I knew that he didn't bother to look them up while judging them. He probably should have but I didn't care. There were nearly 10,000 birds there to be judged and he had several hundred of them to handle. I knew that none of the Campines there would get champion or reserve champion of the Continental Class much less anything higher.

The funny thing happened later. I was standing near my birds, talking to another exhibitor, when a man came along and was really studying/comparing the Campines. He grew increasingly frustrated and angry as he paced and huffed and finally asked out loud "Who judged these birds?!" I said I saw him but didn't know his name and asked what was wrong. He went on a rant about how that hen was NOT the best and that the owner had paid good money to have the bird judged by an expert and it was not fair. He went on to say that the owner of the other birds had done a better job and should have been rewarded with higher marks. He was REALLY upset. I told him that I was the owner of the hen and several of the other birds and I knew full well that she was not the best and that the only reason she won was because of her size. He practically insisted that I file a complaint and was mad when I said it wasn't that important to me.

He stormed off likely lamenting the sorry state of the poultry world.

I think I will feel better knowing that I am working my line back up, as close as I can possibly get them to what they are supposed to be, productive, vigorous, superior egg quality, etc. I will relish those rare times when someone who actually knows the breed, or breeding in general, compliments me on my progress and blesses me with his wisdom and direction (Joseph.) I will be more fullfilled with seeing improvement in my line and in knowing that "I did that!"

I fear that anyone that breeds to current fad will be constantly changing the breeding strategy to meet the changing fad. I also fear that if/when the fad chasers get close to winning, the fads will change.

As for me and my coop, we will adhere to the SOP.

 

[fowlman01]

You can't go wrong following the Standard. Any time you have a breed that judges don't see or see very seldom you may be on the wrong end of a judging decision if the judge doesn't look at the Standard and guesses. Campines weigh more than they appear to weigh and that is stated in the Standard.

It pays to educate the judges by showing and friendly discussions with judges.

Walt

 

[kimberly35042]

Well said Lisa

 

[capayvalleychick]

I didn't understand the judges' placings of my birds at the last show. I asked them both to explain and they were very nice about going over each bird with me. It helped me understand that they are looking at things in a show that are different or might not be as important as what you want in breeding birds.

I appreciate them taking their time to talk to me, so I would not disagree or argue with what a judge says, even if I don't agree.

 

[LeslieDJoyce]

I gather the problem of not breeding to the standard, and not judging to the standard, has some fanciers of at least one breed concerned enough that they have written a document to remind people what the actual standard is for that breed. I think it is a fantastic document, and would love to see one for the breed I'm working on.

The title of the document is "Interpreting the Dominique Standard in 2015", and it is available as a PDF. I found the document over at facebook in the APA's public page, but I can't "share" a direct link here, so you'll have to hunt through the page to find it. If you do a search for "Dominique" at that page you should get it ...

https://www.facebook.com/groups/AmericanPoultryAssociation/