A quastion about the Buff Colombian genetics.

[Akrnaf2]

The color of feathers is based on the different versions of melanin.
Euomelanin for black and Brown, and Pehomelanin for, red orange ect.

So a black bird will have the genes for the black form of Euomelanin.

If the bird have the Co gene the Colombian restrictions gene, it will be a Colombian, light bird this one:

If the bird have the genes for the Pehomelanin ( no Blake =no Euomelanin )it will be red bird.

If a red bird has the Buff delution gene, the phenotype will be diluted red AKA buff

That means that a red bird or a buff bird don't have (or don't express the black genes )
If that is correct how we get this? The buff Colombian?

I will be glad for an explanation!
Benny

 

[3riverschick]

Hi Benny,
Greg Brereton at
https://www.poultrykeeper.com says this is due to the Hackle Black gene. I have Light Sussex and according to him if I did not have the Hackle Black gene in my Light Sussex, my birds would look like a Black Tailed Jap. in other words, they would have no black hackle.
they just be white with a black tail .I'm still wondering about this but haven't found a better answer. Grab your search engine and use keywords : Grant Brereton questioning color : to find an interesting article by him.
Karen and the Light Sussex in Western Pennsylvania

 

[3riverschick]

Two copies of the Columbian Gene will push the black to the birds extremities. the tail ,the Hackle, and parts of the wing. I don't believe it makes any difference what ground color the bird is . that is what two copies of the Columbian gene does.
Best ,
Karen

 

[junebuggena]

Very, very basic breakdown of genetics-
There are only two options for base color for all chickens. They are either red/gold or silver. This holds true for all chickens, regardless of their color. A solid black bird still has the genes for either silver or gold/red, the black is just masking it.
Black is controlled by the E-locus alleles, the basic pattern genes. Solid black is Extended black (EE). These genes control how much black patterning a bird has and the areas that patterning can express. EE produces the most black. Wheaten produces the least amount.
The columbian restrictor only affects those genes, limiting where the black pattern can express, allowing more ground color to be expressed.
The example of the Light Sussex is genetically the same as the Buff Columbian and the Rhode Island Red you posted. The only difference is the base/ground color gene (silver for the sussex, gold/red for the Buff Columbian), and the RIR has the Mahogany gene producing the rich red.
Solid Buff is a completely different set of genetics, and nobody really knows exactly what completely removes all the black.

 

[Akrnaf2]

Hi Benny,
Greg Brereton at
https://www.poultrykeeper.com says this is due to the Hackle Black gene. I have Light Sussex and according to him if I did not have the Hackle Black gene in my Light Sussex, my birds would look like a Black Tailed Jap. in other words, they would have no black hackle.
they just be white with a black tail .I'm still wondering about this but haven't found a better answer. Grab your search engine and use keywords : Grant Brereton questioning color : to find an interesting article by him.
Karen and the Light Sussex in Western Pennsylvania

Thank you Karen!

 

[Akrnaf2]

Very, very basic breakdown of genetics-
There are only two options for base color for all chickens. They are either red/gold or silver. This holds true for all chickens, regardless of their color. A solid black bird still has the genes for either silver or gold/red, the black is just masking it.
Black is controlled by the E-locus alleles, the basic pattern genes. Solid black is Extended black (EE). These genes control how much black patterning a bird has and the areas that patterning can express. EE produces the most black. Wheaten produces the least amount.
The columbian restrictor only affects those genes, limiting where the black pattern can express, allowing more ground color to be expressed.
The example of the Light Sussex is genetically the same as the Buff Columbian and the Rhode Island Red you posted. The only difference is the base/ground color gene (silver for the sussex, gold/red for the Buff Columbian), and the RIR has the Mahogany gene producing the rich red.
Solid Buff is a completely different set of genetics, and nobody really knows exactly what completely removes all the black.

Thanks for your reapply.
Another question
If the black restrictions of the E locus give the silver (SS, Ss) background an opportunity to show, whay it is white? It is supposed to be gray, silvery like in BPR. The B gene also restrict the extention of black and let the Silver gene to show. And it shows as gray, white is NO color at all, even no background color.
The recessive white(cc) ,that the light sussex white is, restric the expression of color, according to the logic in your post the Co gene doesn't restrict the black (that dose not express because the cc!) BUT
HELP it to express in the hackl and tail!

 

[3riverschick]

Hi,
Light Sussex are eWh/eWh S/S Co/Co.
No dominate or recessive white in the breed. That is why they show pure white. It is a very simple genetic color palette. that is one reason I like the variety so much. Much easier to get the color right. so more time to concentrate on breeding for type.
That I know of there are only two or three breeds which have this genetic color formula. one of them is the Columbian Marans which was created by crossing Marans to a Light Sussex hen from Canada. they have the same genetic formula for color as Light Sussex.
The Delaware has the same genetic color formula as the Light Sussex . however it has an added barring gene.
Karen

 

[junebuggena]

Thanks for your reapply.
Another question
If the black restrictions of the E locus give the silver (SS, Ss) background an opportunity to show, whay it is white? It is supposed to be gray, silvery like in BPR. The B gene also restrict the extention of black and let the Silver gene to show. And it shows as gray, white is NO color at all, even no background color.
The recessive white(cc) ,that the light sussex white is, restric the expression of color, according to the logic in your post the Co gene doesn't restrict the black (that dose not express because the cc!) BUT
HELP it to express in the hackl and tail! View attachment 1122407

Silver looks white. By BPR, do you mean Barred Plymouth Rock? Those are extended black with the barring gene applying white bands across the bird. You can't actually see their silver base color. Barring has no restricting effects on black. It is a modifier gene, that will express, regardless of other genetics.
This cockerel, for example has red/gold base color and a single copy of barring, with the Columbian restrictor limiting where his black patterning can express. Notice how the barring gene expresses, applying white bands over the red/gold base color.

You are confusing silver with white. White is caused by modifier genes.
Recessive and dominant white are different genes entirely, and have no effect on base color. They only affect black. A bird can't be recessive white AND have black hackles and tail. If you see white with black patterning, you've got Silver, not white. A breed that illustrates the effects of dominant white really well is the Cornish. Dark Cornish are red/gold based, with black lacing. Red Laced White Cornish are the same genetically, but have dominant white modifying all the black pigment.

 

[Akrnaf2]

Hi,
Light Sussex are eWh/eWh S/S Co/Co.
No dominate or recessive white in the breed. That is why they show pure white. It is a very simple genetic color palette. that is one reason I like the breed so much. Much easier to get the color right. so more time to concentrate on breeding for type.
That I know of there are only two or three breeds which have this genetic color formula. one of them is the Columbian Marans which was created by crossing Marans to a Light Sussex hen from Canada. they have the same genetic formula for color as Light Sussex.
Karen

Thanks!
Now I have to search about the eWh gene. ...

 

[3riverschick]

Other "Lght " breed varieties are all based on a different allele. usually the eb (brown ) allele.
Karen