A question for Candadians and UK folks and the Universal Healthcare

[Hillsvale]

First off I am in Canada, I have not read the whole thread however one comment that needs correcting right away is "free health care"... if anyone saw how much taxes came off my pay cheque you would know its not free!

Now... I have a family doctor.. the only one I could find is foreigner (asian I believe). He has a terrible accent and really only deals with little things... he is very difficult to understand.

I was injured almost two years ago.. spinal injury. I was out of commission for 4 months. Dispite a visit to the family doctor with three referrals to specialists it took three months to get in to see him. While waiting for the specialist appointment I had three trips to the emergency room including one in ambulance, a cat scan and an MRI.. each of these emergency room visits gave me the same result... it will fix itself within a year ( a year... hello.. I have a family to support!!), not one of these doctors looked at the MRI or Cat scan, no one did a reflex test... one who heard about incontinence issues as a result of the injury said it would repair itself!!

Big red flags with spinal injuries...

bulging bits on your spine
nerve pain running down legs
inability to stand up
numb feet and or toes
no reflex at the back of the ancle
urinary and or intimate difficulties

Even now 1 3/4 years after the surgery, I have to roll onto my stomach to get out of bed in the morning. I continue to have pain in by back, my left foot is numb as is the outside of my left leg, there are no reflexes in my heels; if my feet get cold I get pain ... none of this will ever be right again. If I had been attended to in a timely fashion or the emerg doctors took the time to actually check the above out I wouldn't have most of these issues...

Koodoos to the specialist once I final got the appointment... I was in surgery 2 days later!

Now if we were in the states we would have extended health coverage (we buy supplimental plans here for drugs, vision and dental), I would assume (and correct me if I am wrong) that wait times are not as extreme as they are here and I would probably have a healthier spine?

My Simon is a brit... same issues with the "free coverage" however we have children in Denmark and their social programs are the best in the world.... at a 50% + tax rate...

 

[newfoundland]

We do have illegal immigration in UK. In fact people camp in France, on the other side of the channel, and try to cross illegally by stowing away on lorries etc. To stop this happening the government introduced a £2000 fine for any lorry found to be carrying illegal passengers. This means that drivers are extremely vigilant about not leaving their vehicles and checking their loads. British customs and immigration operate in France as well as British ports and of course airports, and yes they do catch people. They also operate around the country rounding up people who have over stayed their visas etc.

I think there may be some confusion over identity cards. All British people have both a National Insurance number and a separate National Health number. If I go into hospital I wear a bracelet with my name, date of birth and National Health number. This is my identification and proves my entitlement to treatment. Babies are issued with these numbers at birth. If I apply for a job I must give my employer my National Insurance number which was issued to me at age 16, when I was first entitled to work. I cannot be employed without a National Insurance number. If born outside the UK I must apply for a National Insurance number and I must prove my entitlement to live and work here. Any benefits I receive for example unemployment benefit, sickness benefit or my state retirement pension are all linked to my National Insurance number. In my case, I did not work for several years whilst my children were small. I therefor did not pay National Insurance contributions for those years. This means that my state retirement pension is smaller than my husbands who worked from age 15 to age 65 with no breaks. This does not affect my right to health care as these are two separate things.

If I need to prove my identity at a bank a driving license and a utility bill showing my home address are usually sufficient. If there is any doubt I can be asked previously agreed questions like my mother's maiden name, the hospital I was born in or my favourite football team, to confirm my identity. I think the Brits have a dislike of actual identity papers because they associate them with occupied Europe where during WW2 everyone was forced to carry papers. Incidentally, if stopped by the Police you will be asked to present your driving license at your nearest police station within 7 days, if you don't have it on you. The Police can check that you have a full clean license in a matter of minutes through a central data base. They can also check who the car is registered to. They will do this by cell phone while they detain you at the roadside.

Visitors to Uk, if their country does not have a recipricol arrangement, would be expected to pay for any treatment. We have in the past, and I'm sure still do have, health tourists who come for free treatment, but it is a situation that is being dealt with. No system is perfect and there are always loopholes for the scroungers to exploit, but it is far better in my opinion to carry a few scroungers and have a system that gives everyone free treatment, than for people to be too poor to get the help they need. I hope you agree.

 

[rebelcowboysnb]

Even in the US you can wait over a month to get an abscessed tooth pulled an even more for other things. I've waited 2 weeks or more just to see the family doctor who also usually cant speak good English. Its not unusual to wait 3 months to see a specialist. Our local trauma ER is top notch but it is a teaching hospital. Others are not so good. ER care varys greatly in the US.

 

[PineappleMama]

^Guess that depends on what plan you've got, and how that plan handles specialists.

That same kind of runaround has happened here too, it's just a private company doing it instead of the government... well they do it too, but not on this particular topic as yet. Before The Plan was passed it happened, and since The Plan is depending on the same insurance companies that've been botching things... well I think it's safe to say that this isn't going to magically stop just because now we're all required to pay for private insurance. Now we just won't be able to cancel ours/go without if we don't like their practices, can't afford the premiums, etc. So, I guess it's gonna be like yours... have to have it, pay for it whether you have food in the house or not because of the premiums... but NOT guaranteed care is covered and that you won't have to spend out of pocket if you need something. Really only difference I can see between ours and yours is where the bill gets sent... the government or the insurance office. Personally I don't have a whole lot of faith in either at this point.

 

[rebelcowboysnb]

Quote:
I was actually talking about paying cash an being able to go where I want an ya still can wait 3 months to get seen.

 

[Hillsvale]

Quote:
I was actually talking about paying cash an being able to go where I want an ya still can wait 3 months to get seen.

We can't just go to a specialist... our GP has to refer you and that first appointment is usually just a consult, I was just very lucky that the specialist who saw me asked all the right questions and poked in the right spots... however I have gone for one follow up appointment and anything after that... tough tootie!

 

[PineappleMama]

Ahhh whoops. But in that situation it's totally on the doctor or hospital. It's their schedule and whatnot that is the only concern. Payment is there, no approval needed, no hoops. Just them fitting you into their schedule. Like having your roof repaired you have to wait until your contractor of choice has the time to do the job, or his team of workers is available, no rain... etc. Gets pretty hectic during the stormy months, I swear there was a solid month where every single day there was pounding. And the folks that waited, for insurance approval for instance, ended up having to wait for a slot because they couldn't schedule an appointment until they knew they had the money to pay for it. Whereas the folks who paid it themselves (then perhaps got the check from insurance) could go ahead and call and get seen right away. Works if you've got the cash and there's a slot available... but if it's busy, only one contractor, etc then you're just as up a creek as the person with insurance.

Of course, little thing like pain, being unable to work, etc aren't considered urgent. Not like if you have a heart attack or something. So you're also going to be put behind those people as well. Priority seating so to speak. That I do understand, me having a broken finger is NOT remotely in the same class as someone with a heart problem. It hurts, but it won't kill me so I've no problem (well, morally speaking at least still hurts like crazy) with them getting priority... getting to cut in line in front of those with 'minor' ailments.

Add in a shortage of that type of doctor, only one for however many hundreds or thousands of people and there's bound to be a backlog. But most folks blame the doc for the wait. Not all the docs who don't go into that field, or the ones who are that type but who don't want to live/work in that town... others get mad at other patients... seen that... ER for instance someone with an injury having to wait behind a dozen people with the sniffles. Folks get peeved over that, think that priority should include them instead of first come first served. Lots of reasons contribute to long waits... not the least of which is the hoops to get approved/payment for the visit.

OHHH another Brit/Canada question... what kind, if any, malpractice insurance do your docs have to carry? Down here those premiums have literally run docs out of business, just cannot afford them and cannot practice without it so they have to close up shop. Leaving the town with one less doctor. Really bad in rural places where there was only one doc (OB/Gyn for instance) for miles to start with. Read an article about women having to drive an hour or more to get to prenatal care, n'mind delivery... because docs don't have enough patients to pay for their overhead. Not just can't pay for a new beamer or a mansion, can't afford to cover having an office, the license requirements, just the basics... n'mind bringing home any money to support yourself. There's no way, right now, that I'd encourage someone become a doctor, nurse or tech yes, but all that education, and the loans to pay back just to maybe keep your head above water.... you can do that working at McD's... and have more job security! How in the world are we going to keep enough doctors to cover everyone if this keeps up? Keep getting run out, or Students see that and decide to become a lawyer instead? The system is already strained as it is. One reason I really hoped to see some reform not only in health insurance but in the health industry in general.

So... do doctors in Canada and/or UK have this problem?

 

[birdsNbeesNseeds]

It's been interesting! People here are not in the best 'economic mood' however- and the money still has to come from somewhere. Quite a number are looking for jobs and the housing market has bust.

Here are the population statistics: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_population

Also land mass:

http://www.mongabay.com/igapo/world_statistics_by_area.htm

Note that we're probably more closely related to Canada by land mass (maybe even culturally except Quebec,) although not by population.

I don't really know what the current voting population is, the current (changes monthly I think) employment statistics, or tax rates by state - but I know quite a few people are upset about the current state of affairs as things stand now.

I really doubt that something like this would have a chance at passing in the current economic climate. I personally HATE politics; I just love learining about other parts of the world. The only thing stopping me from travelling is time and money.... ok, money really.

 

[Hillsvale]

Quote:
Doctors have to carry malpractice insurance,, it varies depending on what they are up to. My old GP for instance delivered my second son and it was his last delivery... the premiums for him to be allowed to deliver were too high.

I can only imagine what a prenatal, reconstructive plastics etc would pay!

 

[birdsNbeesNseeds]

Quote:
I think our problem here is because we have too many lawyers looking for a buck.