Mommarunyon

Chirping
Oct 8, 2021
29
92
74
Ohio
I am sharing my story of stupidity in hopes of preventing another senseless tragedy from occurring in another coop.

Backround: Recently my small farm decided to start supporting small family owned companies over large box stores. In doing this we choose to purchase feed from a local feed store, that has been owned by the same family for several generations.

Upon arrival I felt warm ❤❤ knowing I was supporting a local business, instead of a large company. I pulled in at saw pedigree swine show feed clearance for $10 instead of the $21 we would normally pay at TSC or Rural King! I couldn't believe it and began looking around for other good deals. I took my time strolling through the store comparing prices to that of the Big stores, everything seemed about the same or cheaper; so I grab what I need and headed to the counter. Once at the counter, I inform the owner I want all of the clearance swine show feed, 1 bag of chick starter (non medicated due to feeding ducklings) 2 bags of barley seed (to grow foliage) and 8 bags of mixed egg layer(to stick up for winter feeding)
I paid around $350 because my daughter added some items she wanted to get her little sister, who will be showing a market steer at the fair for the first time, for Christmas; I'm and I leave. When I arrive home I unload and put away all my feed, until I come to my chick starter and I see it's medicated; we are all human, mistakes happen🤷‍♀️. I call and arrange an exchange the following day.

The following day I drive the hour back down, 1 way, to exchange my the medicated feed for 2 bags of non medicated chick starter. As the worker loads me I see the bag says livestock feed and I questioned him. "Are you sure that is chick starter, it says livestock feed? " he replied "yes, we only carry 3 types of crumble which is medicated, and non- medicated 20% chick starter and a layer crumble. We have sold this to the tri-state area for years without problems" I left confident that I had the right feed. When I get home, I fill my feeders give fresh water and proceeded about my day.

The following day I go about my feed routine, everything is going great until I get to the guinea pin, where I found 3 dead guineas. Now my guineas are only a week old; considering it was my first time raising them, I thought it may have been from the stress transporting them or something I did. I removed the deceased, bury them and continued about my day.

During my evening feed check, I find 2 more guineas dead; again I figure I must be doing something wrong since it's only affecting my guineas. Determined to figure out what was going wrong with my guineas, I start a deep dive into how to raise guineas. The only thing I find that I was doing was using pine chips as bedding, which I thought might be killing them. I rush to change the bedding and turn in fir the night.

The following morning I make my rounds again, paying special attention to guineas, 2 had died, leaving me 1 left. The next pin I now have 1 chick dead and 1 who looked as if he was on his way out! Finally this point I realize something else is going on and start racking my brain to figure out what we did differently. The only thing we changed was the food, instantly I pulled the food!

My next step was to call the feed store and discuss what happened and what could be wrong with the feed they provided me. They assured me nothing was wrong and that it had to be something else. She said she would further investigate the problem and call me back.

She called me back and stated, "the head of wildlife came in and she discussed it with him even if I had fed my ducks or guineas medicated it wouldn't have harmed them; that he feeds it to his flock all the time! Further stating the feedthey sold me was chick starter! " Now I'm unsure where this statement came from as I was concerned about the feed not being a chick starter as I knew it wasn't medicated. I'm starting to believe that these so called experts are NOT experts and call the manufacturer. The manufacturer asks me to refer to the tag attached to the bag. I inform the manufacturer that a tag wasn't attached to this particular bag; however I had another bag at our other farm and would check there! I was told since the tag was MIA there was no way to identify my feed; also, it should not have been sold it without the tag it! The only option left was to direct me to the regional sales reps, which I received his cell number, called and left a message.

In the meantime I headed to the other farm to check for a tag on the other bag I purchased. Luckily the tag was still attached to the other bag but by this time the mill I purchased the feed from was closed. I called another mill and told them what happened to my flock; then read him the information from the tag. The other mills owner requested pictures of the bag and tag text to him during our conversation, which I obliged. He examined the photos and said " your problem was the feed; examine the small print! The instructions say for poultry over 8 weeks! " this destroyed me as i trusted the experts and didn't even think to read the small print.

Today the sales rep called me, we discussed everything that happened to my flock, the feed I was sold and what the feed store told me; also requesting pictures of the bag and tag. He assured me that what I was sold was NOT chick starter and apologized over and over to me; even offering me a free bag of feed. I explained that I was just happy to get to the bottom of the issue and requested he re-educate the mill to prevent this situation from happening to other first time feather parents, while declining the free bag of food. He promised he would be at the mill within the hour and the mill WOULD NOT sale this food as chick starter again!

If you have made it with me this far thank you for reading my story of stupidity and tragedy! Please use my experience as a precautionary tale to:

ALWAYS TRUST YOUR GUT, IF SOMETHING DOESN'T FEEL OR SOUND RIGHT IT PROBABLY ISN'T RIGHT!

IF THE TAG ISN'T ON THE BAG DON'T BUY IT

ALWAYS READ ALL TAGS, EVEN THE SMALL PRINT!

IF YOU ARE STILL UNSURE CALL SOMEONE FOR A SECOND OPINION!

Most importantly NEVER BLINDLY TRUST ANYONE, EVEN THE ONES THAT SHOULD BE EXPERTS, WITH YOUR BABIES FOOD!

Pictures below are of the bag and tag that I was sold as chick starter!


I felt it was urgent to get my experience out, to other first time feather parents, which is why i quickly wrote this in between chores and have not proof read it; therefore, please excuse all grammatical and spelling errors!

Thank you in advance
Momma Runyon
 

Attachments

  • Screenshot_20211116-130727_Gallery.jpg
    Screenshot_20211116-130727_Gallery.jpg
    311.3 KB · Views: 104
  • Screenshot_20211116-130734_Gallery.jpg
    Screenshot_20211116-130734_Gallery.jpg
    150.9 KB · Views: 43
I am sharing my story of stupidity in hopes of preventing another senseless tragedy from occurring in another coop.

Backround: Recently my small farm decided to start supporting small family owned companies over large box stores. In doing this we choose to purchase feed from a local feed store, that has been owned by the same family for several generations.

Upon arrival I felt warm ❤❤ knowing I was supporting a local business, instead of a large company. I pulled in at saw pedigree swine show feed clearance for $10 instead of the $21 we would normally pay at TSC or Rural King! I couldn't believe it and began looking around for other good deals. I took my time strolling through the store comparing prices to that of the Big stores, everything seemed about the same or cheaper; so I grab what I need and headed to the counter. Once at the counter, I inform the owner I want all of the clearance swine show feed, 1 bag of chick starter (non medicated due to feeding ducklings) 2 bags of barley seed (to grow foliage) and 8 bags of mixed egg layer(to stick up for winter feeding)
I paid around $350 because my daughter added some items she wanted to get her little sister, who will be showing a market steer at the fair for the first time, for Christmas; I'm and I leave. When I arrive home I unload and put away all my feed, until I come to my chick starter and I see it's medicated; we are all human, mistakes happen🤷‍♀️. I call and arrange an exchange the following day.

The following day I drive the hour back down, 1 way, to exchange my the medicated feed for 2 bags of non medicated chick starter. As the worker loads me I see the bag says livestock feed and I questioned him. "Are you sure that is chick starter, it says livestock feed? " he replied "yes, we only carry 3 types of crumble which is medicated, and non- medicated 20% chick starter and a layer crumble. We have sold this to the tri-state area for years without problems" I left confident that I had the right feed. When I get home, I fill my feeders give fresh water and proceeded about my day.

The following day I go about my feed routine, everything is going great until I get to the guinea pin, where I found 3 dead guineas. Now my guineas are only a week old; considering it was my first time raising them, I thought it may have been from the stress transporting them or something I did. I removed the deceased, bury them and continued about my day.

During my evening feed check, I find 2 more guineas dead; again I figure I must be doing something wrong since it's only affecting my guineas. Determined to figure out what was going wrong with my guineas, I start a deep dive into how to raise guineas. The only thing I find that I was doing was using pine chips as bedding, which I thought might be killing them. I rush to change the bedding and turn in fir the night.

The following morning I make my rounds again, paying special attention to guineas, 2 had died, leaving me 1 left. The next pin I now have 1 chick dead and 1 who looked as if he was on his way out! Finally this point I realize something else is going on and start racking my brain to figure out what we did differently. The only thing we changed was the food, instantly I pulled the food!

My next step was to call the feed store and discuss what happened and what could be wrong with the feed they provided me. They assured me nothing was wrong and that it had to be something else. She said she would further investigate the problem and call me back.

She called me back and stated, "the head of wildlife came in and she discussed it with him even if I had fed my ducks or guineas medicated it wouldn't have harmed them; that he feeds it to his flock all the time! Further stating the feedthey sold me was chick starter! " Now I'm unsure where this statement came from as I was concerned about the feed not being a chick starter as I knew it wasn't medicated. I'm starting to believe that these so called experts are NOT experts and call the manufacturer. The manufacturer asks me to refer to the tag attached to the bag. I inform the manufacturer that a tag wasn't attached to this particular bag; however I had another bag at our other farm and would check there! I was told since the tag was MIA there was no way to identify my feed; also, it should not have been sold it without the tag it! The only option left was to direct me to the regional sales reps, which I received his cell number, called and left a message.

In the meantime I headed to the other farm to check for a tag on the other bag I purchased. Luckily the tag was still attached to the other bag but by this time the mill I purchased the feed from was closed. I called another mill and told them what happened to my flock; then read him the information from the tag. The other mills owner requested pictures of the bag and tag text to him during our conversation, which I obliged. He examined the photos and said " your problem was the feed; examine the small print! The instructions say for poultry over 8 weeks! " this destroyed me as i trusted the experts and didn't even think to read the small print.

Today the sales rep called me, we discussed everything that happened to my flock, the feed I was sold and what the feed store told me; also requesting pictures of the bag and tag. He assured me that what I was sold was NOT chick starter and apologized over and over to me; even offering me a free bag of feed. I explained that I was just happy to get to the bottom of the issue and requested he re-educate the mill to prevent this situation from happening to other first time feather parents, while declining the free bag of food. He promised he would be at the mill within the hour and the mill WOULD NOT sale this food as chick starter again!

If you have made it with me this far thank you for reading my story of stupidity and tragedy! Please use my experience as a precautionary tale to:

ALWAYS TRUST YOUR GUT, IF SOMETHING DOESN'T FEEL OR SOUND RIGHT IT PROBABLY ISN'T RIGHT!

IF THE TAG ISN'T ON THE BAG DON'T BUY IT

ALWAYS READ ALL TAGS, EVEN THE SMALL PRINT!

IF YOU ARE STILL UNSURE CALL SOMEONE FOR A SECOND OPINION!

Most importantly NEVER BLINDLY TRUST ANYONE, EVEN THE ONES THAT SHOULD BE EXPERTS, WITH YOUR BABIES FOOD!

Pictures below are of the bag and tag that I was sold as chick starter!


I felt it was urgent to get my experience out, to other first time feather parents, which is why i quickly wrote this in between chores and have not proof read it; therefore, please excuse all grammatical and spelling errors!

Thank you in advance
Momma Runyon
The feed tag that you have shown... Which is a 20% protein... Did not kill your birds unless it was full of mold.
Are you aware that you can send a dead bird's body to your state lab to have a necropsy perform to find out the exact reason it died?
 
One of my chicks died because Feed store gave me medicated chick feed and I didn't notice until to late.
"Medicated" feed doesn't kill birds. Amprolium in the doses found in feed can't block enough Thiamine (B1) to matter (to them). Moreover, its easily reversible and hardly sudden in its effects. You'd have to ignore your birds clearly very sick behaviors for a lengthy period for them to die of Thiamine deficiency.

Correlation is not causation.

At 5x normal doses, in a study of Ross 308 chicks (male and female) submitted for EU approval of Amprolium, there were NO CLINICAL DIFFERENCES between birds fed no Amprolium, standard dosage Amrpolium, and 5x the recommended dose of Amprolium, apart from their observed coccidia loads. Give this a read.

This is from back in 1962. The doses studied were 2,000 ppm, 4,000 ppm, and up to 20,000 ppm. The current standard dosage is 125 mg/kg, or 125 ppm.

Here in the US, Amprolium-treated feed is offered essentially non-stop to commercial battery egg layers all their lives. Its one of the safest drugs we have available to us as chicken keepers, and is extremely well studied over a lengthy period where high toxicity costs commercial growers interested in maximizing the bottom line.
 
Last edited:
I've looked quite closely at the feed label shown - nutritionally, there are no issues with the ingredients or the certified nutritional contents for chickens of any age.

Age of the feed could be at issue (molds, etc), a miss mix at the mill such that the contents of the package didn't match the label, etc.

The packaging itself doesn't match what Hubbard Feeds shows on its website. https://www.hubbardfeeds.com/ I'd call them with the tag info and inquire about mill dates, how long that's been sitting around.
 
I'm so sorry for your losses. Hopefully the root of the problem is discovered quickly and before anymore losses. I do appreciate your kind act in trying to help others. While the team members at most stores mean well (most of them), it's best to find information from reputable sources. I think we all had to learn that, so I promise you're not alone. I am one of MANY that have a bag of unused DE laying around because it's supposedly good for treating lice and mites, only to learn that it's NOT. There are some amazing folks here that will help you and generally if there is some misinformation, someone will comment with accurate information. For feed, I like @Kiki feed chart. It's so full of information so I'd advise you to view it on a laptop or desktop 😁 It's full of accurate information. I wish you the best with the health and well-being of your remaining flock 💕
 
this feed didn't kill your birds.
The feed might have killed the birds.
But not for the reason the feed rep said (pieces too big)
And not for anything that can be seen on the tag (levels of protein, calcium, and so forth are not dangerous to the birds in question)

So if the feed did kill the birds, it was because of something wrong with the feed (like toxins from mold or from some other source.)
 
According to the feed rep the feed killed them due to the larger crumbles and their inability to digest them?
Large crumble is still crumble and once ingested, would pretty much dissolve into something similar to mush. If there were pieces of crumble that were really too large the chicks would just pick out smaller pieces.

Nutritionally grower feed is fine for chicken chicks (I don't have guineas so not going to guess on that), maybe just a bit lower on protein than what some folks would want for faster growth. So despite the 8 weeks and up instruction, the feed described in the nutrition tag is fine for chicks as far as nutritional value.

Given the losses I'd be more suspect of mold or toxin having gotten in, due to how feed was stored, error during manufacturing, something to that effect...
 

New posts New threads Active threads

Back
Top Bottom