advice for buying breeding stock at shows

[CityChicker]

Okay, in reading this thread, I have had a personal epiphany of sorts. LOL, I typed out a very long response that some of you would have been very well served to read and take to heart, but then decided to delete the entire thing. It is just not worth it as I have learned over and over again that this is not the site for this sort of discussion and that people tend to take things far too personally. Suffice it to say that I agree entirely with what Bob has said. I do not think for one second he was trying to be rude or "start a fight".

Anyway, Sundown, I think you are off to a good start. Yes, sometimes good breeders do sell eggs on occasion, but that is the exception, not the rule. Almost anything else I could say would likely to taken as offensive, even though it would not be intended as such. My definition of "quality breeder" is far, FAR more stringent than what the typical "BYC definition" would be. Good luck to you.

 

[Megs]

you can do what you like with the remaining birds you deemed not good enough for your breeding program. some will sell them, others kill/eat them, others yet would sell only hens and kill/eat roosters so they cant use your line for breeding (though nothing to stop them getting another rooster elsewhere). it depends how protective you are of your line i guess. I am by no means a show breeder, i dabble in local shows and sell mostly for fancy breed laying flocks. while i select my nicest to continue breeding i do not raise hundreds of each breed each year. I personally try to sell pairs or trios, but when not possible i eat the roos and sell the hens

money goes back into the birds, feed, housing etc.

 

[SundownWaterfowl]

Not sure if that "2008" remark was intended towards me, but I have been raising birds for at least the last 7 or 8 years. I started my buff silkie line in 2008, prior to that, I did have other silkies. All quality breeders need to start somewhere.

I don't see what's wrong with selling eggs. If the breeder doesn't have any more room to raise chicks, or their incubator is full, whats the big deal with selling some extra eggs off to make some money for feed, bedding, etc. I hatch until I get enough birds that I can then go through as they grow and pick out my breeders/show birds for next year. I do NOT purchase started or adult birds to add to my flock, as its a closed flock. All new blood I get is through hatching eggs, and I know there are many other quality breeders out there, who breed whatever breed, that do the same thing. Too much risk for me to bring a disease in and have to kill my flock off.

I do totally understand those who don't want to sell eggs because they might sell of their next champion show bird. If I sold hatching eggs to somebody and they hatched out the next champion, I'd be thrilled for them, but saying all quality breeders dont sell eggs is ignorant. Many quality breeders do sell eggs.

 

[TK Poultry]

I'd say that your best bet is not to buy eggs at least, because most begginers are like me (I myself am one)and suck at incubating and out of 30 eggs you might get two to hatch, but that is another story for another thread LOL! I do consider myself a breeder. I "breed" chickens. I take the eggs from my pen and put them in the incubator and keep the best chicks. This by definition is a breeder. The term being thrown around is 'quality' breeder, which I may or may not be by anyones definition. My advice to the OP is to buy a started trio or quad or two pairs or two trios. this way you can see the finish product, so you know what you are getting. You can see if the offspring could potentially mature with faults. You will be able to see the fine details in a mature bird. This is what I have done. I'm in the process of collecting my ameraucana and d'uccle flocks. This is what I have done and it isn't cheap by any means. I think this is what you should do. You don't even have to go to shows to get quality. Some very good breeders will never let their birds step into a show hall by choice. Some have no interest just breeding to the breed standard. There is a large array of breeders to pick from you just have to comb through all the BS kind of like some of these posts LOL, and find the birds that suit your needs. Not all of your birds need to be show quality. What you need to do especially when bringing in just single breeders is to make sure that the breeder birds complement and compensate for the others faults. That is what will produce the show winners. This will also bring you satisfaction of knowing you bred that bird, grew it out, conditioned it, and picked its parents! This is just all my take on everything. Take it with a grain of salt, what do I know I'm 15 and have had chickens for ONE YEAR! LOL

 

[CityChicker]

Again, my initial impression that this discussion was pointless seems to have been spot on. When a person takes things to absolutes rather than reading what is written, it is pointless to continue. Bob stated and I quote, "Quality breeders don't sell chicks or eggs except under rare circumstances". He never said anything that should make you say, "...but saying all quality breeders dont sell eggs is ignorant". He never said "all" nor did he imply that they never sell eggs. He simply stated that it is "under rare circumstances" that they do. I find this to be a very accurate statement. As a regular practice, the majority of successful show breeders (and no, I don't consider county fairs to be shows), do not sell chicks and eggs on a regular basis. They just don't. Some do. Most don't. Others do on occasion, but not as regular practice. Again, to quote Bob, "under rare circumstances".

Anyway, again... Sundown- I think you are off to a good start. You are right, everyone has to start somewhere. That said, you are the one drawing Bob out for argument, not him. He already stated that other things he had to say might offend you. I concur with that statement as well as I have some good ideas what those things might be (hence, I decided not to post my initial post). The poultry world has never been the place for the thin skinned. A person has to learn to set aside their ego and listen to those who have more (or different) experience. I still learn new things literally every day. Some of the harshest critics of my stock have given me some of the best advice. You would be well served to hear that and commit it to memory. There are a lot of "newbies" in this sport that need to really learn the difference between a personal insult and a potentially valuable critique of your stock (or husbandry practices).

When you come to a point where you value harsh evaluation of your stock, you are well on your way to becoming a "quality breeder". I personally give my eye tooth for any opportunity to have someone truly experienced (ie. Master breeders/exhibitor) come in and tear apart my stock. I guess it is all a matter of perspective. As Bob said, my definition of "quality breeder" is very, very different than a lot of people here.

 

[CityChicker]

Quote:
Actually, very good advice though. If you are 15 and have bred birds for only one year, you are very well on your way. You already have some basic concepts down that some supposed "top" breeders do not have down. I cannot even tell you the number of people that seem to think there is nothing more to breeding than putting two good birds in a cage together. There is far more to it than that. It is all about selective breeding and improving your stock. You seem to already know this and therefore, you are far ahead of many. You are also correct that there are indeed a number of top breeders that do not show (even more that did at one time that no longer do).

 

[TK Poultry]

Actually, very good advice though. If you are 15 and have bred birds for only one year, you are very well on your way. You already have some basic concepts down that some supposed "top" breeders do not have down. I cannot even tell you the number of people that seem to think there is nothing more to breeding than putting two good birds in a cage together. There is far more to it than that. It is all about selective breeding and improving your stock. You seem to already know this and therefore, you are far ahead of many. You are also correct that there are indeed a number of top breeders that do not show (even more that did at one time that no longer do).

well thanks I give all the credit to you all on BYC. I have to use these concepts ALOT with my ducks, not so much with the chickens, but will eventually, but don't have all my breeding stock together. I read this thread about someone (I don't remember who) took hatchery cochin hens and a nice correct rooster and with in a few generations had amazing cochins with a hatchery backround. Its all about the breeding, not about who you bought them from or how the quality is. It's can you apply what you read to your birds. Some play safe (as I do) and buy from established flocks of nice birds, but its just buying nice birds and saying ok this bird has this and needs that, well then let me find a bird with the "that", and you do it like this and you have nice birds. I just went through my Swedish flock again and am culling out some bad ones will see if I can walk the walk not just talk the talk. Trying to get a bib 1/4 down the chest with no other colors but white making up the bib is hard! plus nice conformation, size, and correctly colored leggs and primary feathers. I have some with a little bit of all of that in my pen. Trying to meld it all together. I have found if you have a male and you use him to compensate for the females its alot easier to accomplish your goals then to try to compensate on the female end. Not saying it can't be done, but I think it easier to look at it that way. That way I'm looking for more faults in one than I am in like 10, but then again I guess you have to look at the whole flock, but this is just the way I think about things. Just contributing......

edit: I don't think my thing about compensation was clear. I was trying to say. It is easier to say the females dont have "this" so lets find a male with "this". Instead of saying my male doesn't have "that" so lets find a few females with "that", it will be easier finding one good male than finding a few females with the same advantages? I still don't think that was clear just trying to elaborate.​

 

[joe17]

Byc has taught me soo much too! I have gone on google books and read all the breeding books and have learned about tendencies, double mating, pairing up birds, and culling. I know the basics atleast!

 

[joe17]

Yeah I have heard that it's better to have a good rooster because they pass down the good qualities.

 

[TK Poultry]

Quote:
It is because it is an easier variable to change than a whole flock of hens. You have to think of it kind of like a science experiement almost. The independent and dependent variables. You have to pick what your hens are going to be and what the rooster is going to be so that you can change them accordingly. I don't know if any of this makes sense to anyone else but me. This is just how my little OCD mind works LOL!