advice for buying breeding stock at shows

[hcammack]

Quote:
Its ideal to have the best of both but I have actually heard that hens pass down more of the type. When introducing a new color to a flock I have been told to use a rooster.

Henry

 

[cpartist]

I think many respectable, well known, and award winning breeders sell chicks and/or eggs. Many people have gotten their start with Marans because of the hard work and generosity of Bev Davis and others.
Over on the Ameraucana breed forum, most if not all of the top breeders (Smith, Blehm, our own pips and peeps) sell eggs and/or chicks. It does help offset the costs of breeding, but I believe they do it for the love
and development of the breed. The more people working on perfecting and improving conformation and egg color is of benefit to the future generations of breeds, particularly those that are rare, or are still works in progress.

As a buyer, I would only want to buy eggs or chicks for their future potential, because I know that as a seller, I would never sell my best birds. If someone asks me about buying adult breeders I will tell them that I only sell
my adult "culls" to be used as layers, but that eggs hold the promise of birds I haven't haven't a chance to choose for myself. As a buyer of eggs, I have hatched and raised some awesome birds that would have never made it out of a breeders flock.

So perhaps when you are at the show you should check out those birds for sale, and if you see some that you like and conform to standards, ask if they have hatching eggs available. This is just my opinion, but I'll bet that the birds that they left at home, or that are on Championship Row and are not for sale, will give you the best chance at the best quality. Plus, you won't have to quarantine

.

 

[CityChicker]

I do agree about having really good quality drakes, for numerous reasons, especially if funds are limited. First and foremost, high quality drakes (not always, but often) are easier to come by and more affordable than top quality hens. The reason being is obvious, breeders typically keep more of their hens than drakes (same thing with most poultry). If a breeder has surplus, it is generally more likely to have surplus males (not always though, I haven't had surplus drakes the last couple seasons for some odd reason I have been hatching hens like about 5 to 1). Anyway, for someone just starting out, it is typically easier to find an excellent drake from a top breeder. In fact, I have been given (and given away) many really excellent drakes. The other issue with top quality drakes verses ducks is that each drake typically passes his traits on to the offspring of 3-5 hens simply because most breeders pair multiple hens with one male bird. A single hen can potentially make less impact than a single drake (as usual, this is not "always" the case). Anyway, obviously both are important, but your money will usually go further finding an awesome drake.

 

[cracked_egg]

Are you guys sure about the rooster thing? (Just curious)

In horses we say "never underestimate the importance of the bottom line" meaning the bottom/female side of the pedigree/blood line.... Everyone wants to breed to that top stud, but studious breeders know you have to start with the best mare you can afford, know her strengths and weaknesses (physically and in her pedigree) then breed her to the stallion that compliments her and is the best you can afford/find.... There are mares out there that will cross much better with a particular 1500 stud than an 8000 stud... Just the way blood lines go... While it is easier to replace the stud, you're stuck with the mare (unless you sell), much harder to change mares than studs therefore have the best mare you can and find a stallion that suits her... Thought same would apply to birds? Especially as research on horses and dogs are showing huge x-linked traits...

That said, it is a shame to me people had to argue as I really feel there is so much to learn by positive discussion... I really wish I could have read that big long post that was deleted before being posted! Please don't stop posting advice, even if it is to pm me! I truly respect all opinions and hope I'm smart enough to sort it out... Also, I don't want to discount those who have just started put as their "purchasing" of breeding stock was/is recent, lol. "everyone can teach you something even if it is what not to do". Lol!!!

Bob, I'd like to meet you at the Ohio Nationals! You seem like an interesting person!

 

[CityChicker]

I think we were typing at the same time, Cracked Egg! LOL. I don't think anyone meant to imply that one should not buy the best hens they possibly can. Of course, they should. It is just easier to find top quality males for sale, especially at a price that is affordable for most young people especially. Obviously, having good quality in both parents is important. I, personally, think that the best advice is to start with only one or two varieties and purchase less birds, but buy the best quality you can afford. A lot of people go the opposite way though- they start out with lower quality birds in dozens of varieties. Not good, IMO, if the goal is breed the best.

As far as deleting the long post, I assume you are talking to me. LOL. I have began to do a lot of self-censoring on BYC. It is unfortunate, but I don't really see any other way. There are too many topics that you simply cannot discuss on BYC without ruffling feathers and having arguments. As much as I love BYC (and I really do), it is part of what keeps some of the experienced poultry keepers away and causes me to sometimes take vacations from here as well. Of course, the other sites that are nothing but opinionated old fuddy-duddies can become annoying as well!

LOL, BYC really has a pretty good balance. There are just a few topics that I think, for me personally, are better left to other sites.

 

[heatherindeskies]

interesting thread!!!!
I don't think i ever want to breed or show... i just want to buy people's culls and have a flock of various breeds that are pets and pretty to see on the lawn!

 

[SQbrahmas]

Be willing to buy the best stock you can afford. But make sure you know what to look for. Find a very reputable breeder and ask them to bring some birds proir to the show. Learn from that breeder. But most importantly make sure your are completley satisfied and happy with the birds. Dont feel obligated to take the birds. Study your standard.

 

[onthespot]

The worst hen from the best breeder is probably worth more in the breeding pen than the best hen from an average breeder.

 

[greathorse]

I looked for quality RIR for a long time. The fact that I was a complete novice did not help in my search. I eventually found a gentleman that had bred quality large fowl and after considerable correspondence he put in a good word to a breeder for me and eventually I was able to purchase some good chicks. I think the most important part in getting good quality and eventually putting yourself in the position of a breeder is to establish a relationship with somone that is known in the industry and is know for the breeds you have chosen.

I would begin buy subsribing to the poultry press, I would also get a copy of the standard of perfection and then I would begin to listen. I have been hatching from some pretty good stock Wyandotte's and Reds for two years now and am still very very inexperienced. I hope to show next year and I trust the real education will begin at that time.

Good luck

 

[hcammack]

I agree join the breed club and seek out an experienced breeder to make your mentor. I have learned everything I know about Faverolles from this site and the club. The most valuable people I have spoken with are the leaders of the club and also a long time breeder. Making connections with them and building relationships has allowed me to get an amazing start in bantam blue, black, and splash faverolles!

Henry