advice for buying breeding stock at shows

[FourPawz]

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If your photos are any indication, I would say you're right. I'd bet you could go to a show and predict the judges' placements pretty closely. Do you watch the Westminster shows ever? Do your choices for the best 4 dogs in each group come close to the entrants that actually place?

I think that's only carried on cable here so I've never seen it since I don't have cable TV.

Shucks, Katy. Who needs cable? You can go to the Westminster Kennel Club's site and see the videos there: http://www.westminsterkennelclub.org/

Now, if we can just convince the poultry grand poohbahs to put video up on the web for those who can't make the trip to the Ohio nationals!

 

[cracked_egg]

Quote:
Well yes, there are many horse breeders who breed for a good using animal that has never seen the inside of a show ring or pen. But I can't say that these horse are "top quality"... I do know that my show horses are often good using horses. I have a mare that no longer gets in foal, is the dam of a Worlds champion, and she went on her first trail ride this spring, she got to tromp through the vermillion river!

Yes, the amish are very studious breeders. Many in my breed make the mistake of assuming that they are slow witted just because their ways are slow... I'm constantly amazed at the bloodlines and quality they are coming up with (and while they don't show, they do pay english to show for them). But they get our magazines, go to our shows, belong to our breed club, etc. Therefore they are educating themselves even thought they aren't presenting the horses themselves, they're still seeing where their stock stands. (Few breeders present their own in my breed anyway, lol...)

 

[greathorse]

Quote:
Well yes, there are many horse breeders who breed for a good using animal that has never seen the inside of a show ring or pen. But I can't say that these horse are "top quality"... I do know that my show horses are often good using horses. I have a mare that no longer gets in foal, is the dam of a Worlds champion, and she went on her first trail ride this spring, she got to tromp through the vermillion river!

Yes, the amish are very studious breeders. Many in my breed make the mistake of assuming that they are slow witted just because their ways are slow... I'm constantly amazed at the bloodlines and quality they are coming up with (and while they don't show, they do pay english to show for them). But they get our magazines, go to our shows, belong to our breed club, etc. Therefore they are educating themselves even thought they aren't presenting the horses themselves, they're still seeing where their stock stands. (Few breeders present their own in my breed anyway, lol...)

That is correct some pay someone to show a horse or "sell" the horse to someone and then it eventually winds up back at the farm. What breed to you have Cracked? In general the Amish in my area raise drafts and some standard breds but after that it gets pretty scarce. Just curious, I grew up in an amish environment and work (auction) at some of the draft sales. Thanks

 

[Katy]

Thanks Paul for the kind words, but I don't think I've had my SLWs long enough to take very much credit for them at all. Another 3 or 4 generations and then I'll start to feel like they are truely "my birds".

Fourpawz......I'm afraid I'm not much of a follower of purebred dogs.......except for one purebred dog I've always had great Heinz 57 dogs.

 

[cracked_egg]

Do you have many Amish at all in colorado?

I have Saddlebreds. Around here the Amish drive standard breds, morgans and saddlebreds, and some are really getting into the dutch harness horse (and hackney horses)... Of course the drafts are still work horses, but road horses seem to be mainly standardbreds and saddlebreds. I don't know much about the draft part of the industry, (or many of the other breeds as I try to stay super focused within my own) but it is always nice to know where you can sell a cull that maybe is very correct in build but not flashy enough for show. Which is what I meant by breeding to standard means one's own interpretation of it... Lol...

 

[big medicine]

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I think there may be a few reasons for this. As mentioned, some folks are probably worried that that they may be selling the potential future show winner. I suspect a more likely fear is that a small percentage of the eggs/chicks sold may develop into sub par examples of the breed. Now if the purchaser can be trusted to discreetly cull, or rehome them as non breeders, without associating them with the breeder, it is not really an issue. This is where developing some dialogue, and trust, may get you the opportunity to recieve shipped eggs/chicks. It is the purchaser who figures that they paid good money for those eggs, and by God they are going to put every chick that hatched into next years breeding pens, and raise/sell as many young as possible while advertising that they got their birds directly from "breeder X" that scares them. It's easier to protect the reputation of their line by growing them out and only selling birds they think worthy of their line.

 

[cracked_egg]

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VERY inciteful!!! Thank you so much for stating this in this manner!!! I mentioned a somewhere on here that having connections allows me to breed to top stallions at a discount or free, because 1 they like my mares and 2 they trust me to get the resulting colt into the show ring (or sold to someone who will) if it is of quality, thereby promoting the stallion OR they trust that I will cull it and make sure it isn't heard from again and not out there getting bad ribbons at bad horse shows....

So, I guess I can TOTALLY see where chicken breeders would feel the same way!!! Think of how much bad press we see on this public forum and craigslist!

 

[HallFamilyFarm]

I personally would enjoy some folks culls. Take a cull X cull, cull real heavy and you will get some good quality chicks. The genetics are there. Just not as many. Most call their culls by the terms Breeder Quailty and Pet Quality. I would consider any Pet Quality as a good start for a 4H member. With guidness they can produce some quality birds. On another forum a fellow has been begging for another's cull Redcaps. Redcaps are in bad shape and extremely rare. Most look like a bad colored Hamburg. Yet the one fellow with fair quality will not even share his culls.

Folks, we must share our lines of rare and critical breeds in order to preszerve them.

 

[joe17]

Yeah thats the thing. Most silkies breeders sell chicks and eggs so that other people CAN become show winners. I don't think most breeders mind selling chicks because of that unless they are trying to build their flock up. I don't think it's just about winning the ribbon. About the culls, many inexperienced people will breed culls just because of the bloodline but of course they won't get very far. When they realize they shouldn't do that, I'm sure they will eventually cull heavy. Just look at hatcheries. All they sell are pet quality. With horses thsbis different. You can only breed a mare once every year so you must selectively breed and decide on the stud. You can't have 50 foals a year from one mare and then cull until you get the best one.

 

[cracked_egg]

Ok, so I've gathered some great suggestions, but I have another question.

What do you do when the variety you're interested in is rare and therefore the "Pickens are slim" lol..?

I'm most interested in the Silver Penciled Wyandotte, and the Columbian. But these are both fairly rare. I also really like the buffs, blues and SLW... It seems white, SLW and BLRW are easy to find, but maybe the reason I like the others so well is their rareness?

Thanks in advance! You guys are a wealth of information and I'm glad we aren't getting too side tracked...