Ameraucana thread for posting pictures and discussing our birds

[poularde]

I am a newbie for Ameraucanas. I feel this is a subject that is old and has had plenty of discussion. I have a hard time taking someone seriously that can not even take the time to spell Ameraucana correctly in their own signature.

I would love to hear the great discussions on here. It is a great place to learn.

 

[BonneTerreChick]

I know this may ruffle feathers and for that I am sorry it is not my intent. I have been reading this thread and have done some reading elsewhere and in my quest for understanding and knowledge, have questions.

I understand that birds are Ameraucana's if they meet the standard(are of accepted colors and conformation is correct) and that they breed true. I believe that from that definition all others are Easter Eggers, though it seems there is some contention over whether "project" colored birds are Ameraucana or EE's(seems to correlate with whether you have project colors or not as to which side you agree with). (Is there a list of accepted "projects" for Ameraucana colors that would mean that these birds are Ameraucana and its ok that they dont follow the rules yet? It seems like this would be the way to keep Joe Doe from saying his EE's he got at the feed store are "Project Ameraucana" or Ameraucana).

Anyway, if you have an Ameraucana(with accepted color and conformation) pullet and it has bred true with the roosters you have for a few seasons, then you get a new rooster and you have a recessive trait show up that doesnt meet the standard. Do those birds stop being Ameraucana? Are the pullet and the new rooster and their standard meeting offspring Ameraucana's but the offspring with the fault arent? What about all the offspring that have been hatched in the past from that pullet, they may or may not be carriers of that fault, are they Ameraucana? Does a breeder go back to all the folks who bought eggs, chicks or started birds and let them know the pullet was a carrier? I know this may seem extreme, but it is a matter of ethics and philosophy, and tells alot about a person, or group of people. From what I have read here it seems that the pullet, new rooster and their standard meeting offspring can be called Ameraucana but most breeders would cull them? Would they be culled as Ameraucana or EEs?

This brings me to the excessive white birds folks were just talking about. I dont know enough about W/BW or genetics to say whether this is genetic or environmental. But if it is genetic, does that mean that the parents shouldnt be used for breeding? Or is it like with other breeds, you know about the fault but you may breed them because they offer something to improve your line(good feet, better conformation, etc.)? I wonder about this because if you cull anything with a fault and the parents that produced it, with the breed being relatively new, would that narrow the gene pool tremendously? And therefore, cause a whole new set of problems?

I know some of these questions seem nit-picky and that there may be many different answers and that different individual's will have different opinions, but hopefully folks can express their opinions as just that and not come to verbal blows over it.

Please dont chop my head off in reply, I know many of you are tired of the EE/Ameraucana debate (which seems to escalate to much more than a debate at times) and of people who are new and ask the same questions the last newbie asked. I am not trying to start something, I really just would like some clarification for my own understanding. And as an aside, I was reminded just the other day that when you reply in writing, whether it be emails, replies to threads or the "old fashioned" letter, that the person on the receiving end can not see your face or your body. So they cannot pick up the non-verbal cues we all use to add dimension to what is being said-to know whether someone is upset, angry, happy or being sarcastic. The social cues just arent there. Just thought it was worth sharing.

Finally, is there a way to "tack" or "lock" a post at the start of the thread? Or is the person who started the thread or a staff available to make the first post provide the information on EE vs Ameraucana, with some pictures for clarification? Then folks wouldnt have to constantly answer the same questions and debate the same points over and over again, but could just refer the newbie to the initial message. Other online communities I belong to have this option and it seems to help tremendously!

 

[draye]

Quote:

 

[pips&peeps]

Quote:

 

[BonneTerreChick]

Thank you pipsandpeeps, I have to get ready for work, but will consider this more when I have some time. I think it will answer many of my questions. Thanks for your time in answering.

 

[BarnGoddess01]

I know this may ruffle feathers and for that I am sorry it is not my intent. I have been reading this thread and have done some reading elsewhere and in my quest for understanding and knowledge, have questions.

I understand that birds are Ameraucana's if they meet the standard(are of accepted colors and conformation is correct) and that they breed true. I believe that from that definition all others are Easter Eggers, though it seems there is some contention over whether "project" colored birds are Ameraucana or EE's(seems to correlate with whether you have project colors or not as to which side you agree with). (Is there a list of accepted "projects" for Ameraucana colors that would mean that these birds are Ameraucana and its ok that they dont follow the rules yet? It seems like this would be the way to keep Joe Doe from saying his EE's he got at the feed store are "Project Ameraucana" or Ameraucana).

Anyway, if you have an Ameraucana(with accepted color and conformation) pullet and it has bred true with the roosters you have for a few seasons, then you get a new rooster and you have a recessive trait show up that doesnt meet the standard. Do those birds stop being Ameraucana? Are the pullet and the new rooster and their standard meeting offspring Ameraucana's but the offspring with the fault arent? What about all the offspring that have been hatched in the past from that pullet, they may or may not be carriers of that fault, are they Ameraucana? Does a breeder go back to all the folks who bought eggs, chicks or started birds and let them know the pullet was a carrier? I know this may seem extreme, but it is a matter of ethics and philosophy, and tells alot about a person, or group of people. From what I have read here it seems that the pullet, new rooster and their standard meeting offspring can be called Ameraucana but most breeders would cull them? Would they be culled as Ameraucana or EEs?

This brings me to the excessive white birds folks were just talking about. I dont know enough about W/BW or genetics to say whether this is genetic or environmental. But if it is genetic, does that mean that the parents shouldnt be used for breeding? Or is it like with other breeds, you know about the fault but you may breed them because they offer something to improve your line(good feet, better conformation, etc.)? I wonder about this because if you cull anything with a fault and the parents that produced it, with the breed being relatively new, would that narrow the gene pool tremendously? And therefore, cause a whole new set of problems?

I know some of these questions seem nit-picky and that there may be many different answers and that different individual's will have different opinions, but hopefully folks can express their opinions as just that and not come to verbal blows over it.

Please dont chop my head off in reply, I know many of you are tired of the EE/Ameraucana debate (which seems to escalate to much more than a debate at times) and of people who are new and ask the same questions the last newbie asked. I am not trying to start something, I really just would like some clarification for my own understanding. And as an aside, I was reminded just the other day that when you reply in writing, whether it be emails, replies to threads or the "old fashioned" letter, that the person on the receiving end can not see your face or your body. So they cannot pick up the non-verbal cues we all use to add dimension to what is being said-to know whether someone is upset, angry, happy or being sarcastic. The social cues just arent there. Just thought it was worth sharing.

Finally, is there a way to "tack" or "lock" a post at the start of the thread? Or is the person who started the thread or a staff available to make the first post provide the information on EE vs Ameraucana, with some pictures for clarification? Then folks wouldnt have to constantly answer the same questions and debate the same points over and over again, but could just refer the newbie to the initial message. Other online communities I belong to have this option and it seems to help tremendously!

These are EXCELLENT and honest, thoughtful questions. I can't imagine that you have ruffled any feathers at all.

Serious, established Ameraucana breeders don't really concern themselves with labeling their own birds They know what they have. They have those they keep and those they cull. Some they breed, some they show, and some do both. For the most part, they are probably working with closed lines and they understand what Ameraucanas are supposed to look like. If and when they introduce new blood, they are on the look out for problems and cull heavily anything that doesn't meet their goal with Ameraucanas. They don't worry about what they are calling them when they are culling them.

Depends on the breeder how they respond to a problem. If a particular bird or pair of birds is showing a tendency to spit out problems, many of the established breeders will scrap (cull) the whole line and start over. But they may very well have something else to fall back on as well. From what I have read, successful poultry breeding prefers a narrow gene pool once they know they like the genes they are working with. Then they just have to concern themselves with maintaining fertility and vigor. They are not quick to introduce new blood unless a problem shows up.

You can call whatever you want an "Ameraucana". You can call whatever you want a "project". Depends who you are talking to whether or not they take you seriously. There are enough respectable Lavender Ameraucanas out there now breeding true that most folks accept them as Ameraucanas even though they aren't yet officially recognized. The Ameraucana Breeders Club is very serious about getting lavenders accepted by the APA and it probably isn't that far away.

The information about what is and isn't Ameraucana is all over the place. You can tag it, bookmark it, highlight it, repeat it, rephrase it, put it in bold - whatever. Most folks start to get it with some education and direction (including myself!) Some folks just simply refuse to accept it so the debates WILL continue!!

 

[StevenW.]

Question: I have a Black Ameraucana Hen, I bought her last year from someone on here.
She lays a green egg color. But my question is, would she pass that gene onto her offspring if she was bred to a Lavender that came from a light blue egg?
(Before anyone asks, she is pure breed.)
I have a picture of her from when I first got her last, I don't have any recent photos because she hasn't been looking to good from molting and just coming off her broody streak of 2 months.

E-mail that was sent to my friend then forwarded to me.

"Subject: Re: Wanted: Ameraucana pullets or hens
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 10:05:16 -0500

I have a black 2010 pullet that won champion large fowl at our ABC National in Kentucky last fall.
Turns out she lays a green egg, which is the only reason I'm selling her.
Mike Gilbert.
http://redstagacres.webs.com/"





(She blinked right when the camera captured the picture..)



Suggestions and Comments are all Welcome! I have a tough skin so lay it on me!

 

[2seth2]

Quote: Everyone is entitled to an opinion and some of the people with oppistite opions to you have done just as much reasearch

At this rate we will have to make a battle Ameraucana thread

 

[ChickenExtreme]

Not sure, but she is Beautiful

 

[2seth2]

she is Beautiful

Agreed