Ameraucana thread for posting pictures and discussing our birds

[Outrun Acres]

I have been reading through this thread for awhile and find the standard for this breed very confusing. I may be opening up a can of worms with this post, but I would like to hear some other opinions on the matter. This system of classifying Ameraucana offspring as an entirely different breed because they don't meet the standards definition of feather coloring baffles me. I have only encountered this in the chicken world.

If you breed two colorful, spotted Appaloosa horses together and get a solid colored foal with no spots or any other Appaloosa color characteristics the foal is still an Appaloosa and can be registered and shown as such. When the foal is registered with the breed registry it can only acquire limited registration because of its lack of color and/or spots. But the foal would never be considered an entirely different breed based exclusively on the color of it's coat.

So if you breed two Ameraucana's together and produce a chick that hatches with coloring that does not fit into the standard but has slate colored legs and still lays a blue egg, in my opinion, genetically it is still an Ameraucana. They may need to come up with some criteria to split the breed into two categories, like they have with Appaloosa horses. Maybe they should merely classify them as Non-Standard Ameraucanas. I'm sure every once in awhile, even top breeders produce chicks that do not meet the standard and technically would not be considered Ameraucanas. Is it right consider those chicks to be EE's, an entirely different breed?

 

[salt and pepper]

I have been reading through this thread for awhile and find the standard for this breed very confusing. I may be opening up a can of worms with this post, but I would like to hear some other opinions on the matter. This system of classifying Ameraucana offspring as an entirely different breed because they don't meet the standards definition of feather coloring baffles me. I have only encountered this in the chicken world.

If you breed two colorful, spotted Appaloosa horses together and get a solid colored foal with no spots or any other Appaloosa color characteristics the foal is still an Appaloosa and can be registered and shown as such. When the foal is registered with the breed registry it can only acquire limited registration because of its lack of color and/or spots. But the foal would never be considered an entirely different breed based exclusively on the color of it's coat.

So if you breed two Ameraucana's together and produce a chick that hatches with coloring that does not fit into the standard but has slate colored legs and still lays a blue egg, in my opinion, genetically it is still an Ameraucana. They may need to come up with some criteria to split the breed into two categories, like they have with Appaloosa horses. Maybe they should merely classify them as Non-Standard Ameraucanas. I'm sure every once in awhile, even top breeders produce chicks that do not meet the standard and technically would not be considered Ameraucanas. Is it right consider those chicks to be EE's, an entirely different breed?

I agree completely. The breeder I met had BEAUTIFUL birds, they were the right shape, weight, and layed the brightest blue I have seen, but, since he bred for color of the birds, they are considered EE??? They have the blood line of pure ameraucanas, just not the right coloring. I have a standardized ameraucana, and plan to get more, but, by chance I get a pure ameraucana that is a different color, I will still see it as an ameraucana.

 

[BarnGoddess01]

Quote:
Every species sets its own rules and guidelines and within the species, the breeds can also make their own rules. Thoroughbreds have very stringent rules about what should and shouldn't be called a Thoroughbred. They don't allow AI so any foal produced that way can't be registered even if both parents are fully registered Thoroughbreds. Dutch Warmblood stallion owners have to pay big fees in advance and name their off-spring following pre-set rules if they want to be included in the breed book. Folks working with the "purebreds" don't appreciate the mutts (those that don't follow the breed rules) being referred to as the real deal regardless of who their parents are and they'll make that well known to you if you give them a chance. And within the poultry/chicken species, some breeds have stronger rules for inclusion than others. For example, "if it doesn't lay a 4 or above dark egg on the shade card, it isn't a Marans." Doesn't matter who the parents are. For Ameraucanas, they have rules about plummage colour and leg colour. Breed status is not necessarily a birth-right.

 

[swga]

Sparrow is an EE (her legs are green) but there is not a thing wrong with that. EEs lay eggs that are just as colourful/pretty and the share many features in common with Ameraucanas. Furthermore, hatching eggs from EEs can result in some VERY interesting colour patterns.

The color is kinda off in the pic- her legs are a blue-gray... this is pretty confusing!

 

[swga]

Whaaa? If a Maran doesn't lay a certain color, it isn't a Maran? But over the year, eggshells may get lighter if the birds are running low on certain nutrients (they're tired, poor things...) so does that mean you can start out with a Maran, but it is re-evaluated by every egg they lay? If on the day they are judged if their egg is too light they aren't a Maran, but if they were judged two weeks ago or whatever, they would be?

 

[salt and pepper]

Every species sets its own rules and guidelines and within the species, the breeds can also make their own rules. Thoroughbreds have very stringent rules about what should and shouldn't be called a Thoroughbred. They don't allow AI so any foal produced that way can't be registered even if both parents are fully registered Thoroughbreds. Dutch Warmblood stallion owners have to pay big fees in advance and name their off-spring following pre-set rules if they want to be included in the breed book. Folks working with the "purebreds" don't appreciate the mutts (those that don't follow the breed rules) being referred to as the real deal regardless of who their parents are and they'll make that well known to you if you give them a chance. And within the poultry/chicken species, some breeds have stronger rules for inclusion than others. For example, "if it doesn't lay a 4 or above dark egg on the shade card, it isn't a Marans." Doesn't matter who the parents are. For Ameraucanas, they have rules about plummage colour and leg color. Breed status is not necessarily a birth-right.

That's not exactly true with the marans.... even if the coloring of the egg is too light, it's still a marans, just a really poor quality one. Here's a question, the splash isn't a recognized color for ameraucanas, so does that mean if you have a splash, it's technically a ''EE''?

 

[poularde]

Not this argument again...

 

[pips&peeps]

That's not exactly true with the marans.... even if the coloring of the egg is too light, it's still a marans, just a really poor quality one. Here's a question, the splash isn't a recognized color for ameraucanas, so does that mean if you have a splash, it's technically a ''EE''?

Because it will breed true. Off color birds will not breed true at least 50% of the time which is the standard. This standard allows for the blue gene which creates 50% blue, 25% black and 25% splash.

Also notice, if people are working on project colors they are called just that projects. 99% of the time a mixed colored bird is not someone working on a project.

Splash breeds true and is the natural result of breeding blue to blue. Lavenders breed true and are still in project stage, but by all accounts are ameraucanas at this point.

A mixed colored bird generally has no end result and is generally the result of lazy breeding practices.

 

[salt and pepper]

Because it will breed true. Off color birds will not breed true at least 50% of the time which is the standard. This standard allows for the blue gene which creates 50% blue, 25% black and 25% splash.

Thank you, I was actually wondering on that one. if you get a non standard ameraucana that you like the color of, and keep breeding for that color, until they do breed true, then what is it considered? People have lavender ameraucanas, which don't breed true, and aren't accepted in the standard, but they aren't considered EEs??

 

[pips&peeps]

Not this argument again...