Ameraucana thread for posting pictures and discussing our birds

[bruceha2000]

There is no such breed as 'Black Star' or 'Golden Comet'; but they still use those names. For some reason, hatcheries have no problem making up names for their sexlinks, but coming up with their own name for their 'Ameraucana' is something they refuse to do.

Yeah, it just doesn't make sense. It almost seems like they are intentionally misrepresenting the birds to make a sale (kinda like a used car salesman) but WHY don't they mind that it gives them a bad reputation??

They use that name because it sells. It is the name most people associate with the blue egg layer. If the hatcheries would at least add some tag to their name or use their version of spelling consistantly , "Americana", that would help. But I think what really needs to be done is 4-H shows and county fair judges need to stop accepting these EE's as Ameraucana in the shows.

Really?

Jerry,
I've seen stubs start to show up a few to several times over the years after crossbreeding and outcrossing, even though neither of the parent birds had feather legs or stubs.
As I checked my notes I see the problem some are having is "double spurs" from the Sumatra crossbreeding, not stubs, but stubs could be popping up also after a cross like that.
Brahma, Wyandotte and Orpington were used to bring buff color into Ameraucana buff bantams.
Orpington for LF, but as you say Polish was added later. Buff bantams were crossed into LF also and whatever it took, was done.

I did find out a year or so back that "if it looks like the breed it is the breed" and people bring in other breeds to "improve" a feature (this was on the Cubalaya thread) but geez, I would think it awful dangerous to cross in something like a fru-fru topped Polish. How long before people end up with "sports" with feather duster hats??

 

[abbevilleoz]

Jerry,
I've seen stubs start to show up a few to several times over the years after crossbreeding and outcrossing, even though neither of the parent birds had feather legs or stubs.   
As I checked my notes I see the problem some are having is "[COLOR=404040]double spurs" from the Sumatra crossbreeding, not stubs, but stubs could be popping up also after a cross like that.[/COLOR]
[COLOR=404040]​Brahma, Wyandotte and Orpington were used to bring buff color into Ameraucana buff bantams.[/COLOR]
[COLOR=404040]Orpington for LF, but as you say Polish was added later.  Buff bantams were crossed into LF also and whatever it took, was done. [/COLOR]

Just a question from an unlearned rookie. Are there any ethical issues when bringing in other breed's blood into another? I've have a little background in dog breeding and that would be a definite AKC disqualification.

 

[cgmaster]

Yeah, it just doesn't make sense. It almost seems like they are intentionally misrepresenting the birds to make a sale (kinda like a used car salesman) but WHY don't they mind that it gives them a bad reputation??


Really?  


I did find out a year or so back that "if it looks like the breed it is the breed" and people bring in other breeds to "improve" a feature (this was on the Cubalaya thread) but geez, I would think it awful dangerous to cross in something like a fru-fru topped Polish. How long before people end up with "sports" with feather duster hats??

Crests are dominant or at least partially dominant... As in you can only get crests if at least one or both of the parents had crests...

 

[EastNashChick]

Just a question from an unlearned rookie. Are there any ethical issues when bringing in other breed's blood into another? I've have a little background in dog breeding and that would be a definite AKC disqualification.

I think I've read an actual word for it-but can't think of it now. As long as a bird conforms to SOP and breeds true, it's lineage isn't considered in showing. Meaning,it would be considered pure.

 

[Ravynscroft]

Just a question from an unlearned rookie. Are there any ethical issues when bringing in other breed's blood into another? I've have a little background in dog breeding and that would be a definite AKC disqualification.

In poultry you *can* outcross, but a lot depends on which breed you are outcrossing to and what your base is... also, it takes generations of breeding back in to breed true again... not recommended for new breeders, though...

I think I've read an actual word for it-but can't think of it now. As long as a bird conforms to SOP and breeds true, it's lineage isn't considered in showing. Meaning,it would be considered pure.

It's phenotype (the look) compared to genotype (the genetics)... shows can only judge on phenotype, but if you aren't truthful, that reputation will follow you everywhere...

I do believe someone bred a mix once and showed it as a pure and won, then revealed the truth afterwards... it was not pretty... :/

 

[FowlStuff]

I think I've read an actual word for it-but can't think of it now. As long as a bird conforms to SOP and breeds true, it's lineage isn't considered in showing. Meaning,it would be considered pure.

Yeah, it just doesn't make sense. It almost seems like they are intentionally misrepresenting the birds to make a sale (kinda like a used car salesman) but WHY don't they mind that it gives them a bad reputation??


Really?

I did find out a year or so back that "if it looks like the breed it is the breed" and people bring in other breeds to "improve" a feature (this was on the Cubalaya thread) but geez, I would think it awful dangerous to cross in something like a fru-fru topped Polish. How long before people end up with "sports" with feather duster hats??

Every chicken in the world is related to every chicken in the world. I created many of the recognized varieties of Ameraucana using chickens that had the desired genes. Breeding isn't for everyone.

 

[FowlStuff]

In poultry you *can* outcross, but a lot depends on which breed you are outcrossing to and what your base is... also, it takes generations of breeding back in to breed true again... not recommended for new breeders, though...
It's phenotype (the look) compared to genotype (the genetics)... shows can only judge on phenotype, but if you aren't truthful, that reputation will follow you everywhere...

I do believe someone bred a mix once and showed it as a pure and won, then revealed the truth afterwards... it was not pretty...

FYI...an outcross is crossing different lines/stains or a variety and even different varieties within a breed. Crossbreeding is crossing different breeds or even hybrids or mongrels.

 

[Ravynscroft]

FYI...an outcross is crossing different lines/stains or a variety and even different varieties within a breed.  Crossbreeding is crossing different breeds or even hybrids or mongrels.

Thanks... head cold is messing with my brain function...

 

[FowlStuff]

Just a question from an unlearned rookie. Are there any ethical issues when bringing in other breed's blood into another? I've have a little background in dog breeding and that would be a definite AKC disqualification.

Just as every breed of dog had to be originally created/developed from dogs that weren't of that breed...because it didn't exist, breeds and varieties of chickens have to be created from other chickens.
Read the background of the Chantecler for a list of all the breeds used to create them, just to give you idea how one breed came about.
Once you have a breed and you want to develop more colors (varieties) crossbreeding is often the only way to introduce the desired genes. Think of all the breeds in recent years that now have a lavender variety, understanding crossbreeding was needed with each to bring in the recessive lavender gene.

 

[jerryse]

Just a question from an unlearned rookie. Are there any ethical issues when bringing in other breed's blood into another? I've have a little background in dog breeding and that would be a definite AKC disqualification.

A lot has been done without AKC documentation . Parentage falsified ect. Harder to do with DNA profiling . I can see Pomeranian in long haired Chiahuahua . Dachshund have long hair and dapple . Looks like blue merle collie or blue heeler was added . If you got caught then yes they would ban you . Newer registries have come along to take care of these newly developed colors or breeds . The UKC was created to get coonhounds registered . Way back the AKC would not touch them . The CKC and others have come into existence .