Ameraucana thread for posting pictures and discussing our birds

[tigercreek]

Reading the APA standard, the description of body color refers to page 37 - the blue Columbian.

The SOP for blue does not refer to 'Columbian'...it is referring you to page 37 which is the description of blue under the heading of the blue variety of Plymouth Rock...I believe the intent was to avoid repeating the description for every breed with a blue variety...they refer you to Silver Dutch Bantams for the Silver Ameraucana color...

What about Blue wheatens?

I think you need the same pattern genes to get any true lacing..if you want blue lacing, maybe you need to adjust the effect of the melanizing genes?? the thing about the edging is that it is a diluted black, it is a lack of color.. opposite effect of lacing. with out Pg, and Ml, you don't push the black to the edge..I'm guessing that it would be very difficult if not impossible to get that effect in blue wheatens..

I would still debate whether it was necessary to bring in black to avoid the over-dilution of the blue from time to time

Two thoughts...all blue are not the same...some are darker than others...and you can use black if you have a good idea of the genotype...


Granted, if the lacing is from the combination of pattern genes, bringing black back in won't help lacing, but it definitely would add some of those melanizers back in to darken the blue again.

Still an 'if' there????? we are not talking about making dark blue...SOP dosen't call for that, just calls for an even shade of slate...depth of blue is personal preference as far as I can tell..

 

[samouw]

Reading the APA standard, the description of body color refers to page 37 - the blue Columbian.

The SOP for blue does not refer to 'Columbian'...it is referring you to page 37 which is the description of blue under the heading of the blue variety of Plymouth Rock...I believe the intent was to avoid repeating the description for every breed with a blue variety...they refer you to Silver Dutch Bantams for the Silver Ameraucana color...

You're right - I should have flipped back a page.

What about Blue wheatens?

I think you need the same pattern genes to get any true lacing..if you want blue lacing, maybe you need to adjust the effect of the melanizing genes?? the thing about the edging is that it is a diluted black, it is a lack of color.. opposite effect of lacing. with out Pg, and Ml, you don't push the black to the edge..I'm guessing that it would be very difficult if not impossible to get that effect in blue wheatens..

Might be an interesting experiment...

I would still debate whether it was necessary to bring in black to avoid the over-dilution of the blue from time to time

Two thoughts...all blue are not the same...some are darker than others...and you can use black if you have a good idea of the genotype...

Agreed. I think there is some meeting in the middle here.


Granted, if the lacing is from the combination of pattern genes, bringing black back in won't help lacing, but it definitely would add some of those melanizers back in to darken the blue again.

Still an 'if' there????? we are not talking about making dark blue...SOP dosen't call for that, just calls for an even shade of slate...depth of blue is personal preference as far as I can tell..

True, but in other species with which I'm familiar, constantly breeding dilute to dilute results in other health issues, particularly skin or coat related. I'm curious if it is the same with blue chickens. We already know that self-blue to self-blue will impact feather quality and self-blue is just another dilute gene. And, eventually, the blue might become so light as to be unrecognizable. If I had enough years left, and the space to do it, it would be very interesting to see the F3 or F4 generation of blue to blue...but I don't have the space and doubt I have that much energy.

 

[tigercreek]

We already know that self-blue to self-blue will impact feather quality and self-blue is just another dilute gene. And, eventually, the blue might become so light as to be unrecognizable. If I had enough years left, and the space to do it, it would be very interesting to see the F3 or F4 generation of blue to blue...but I don't have the space and doubt I have that much energy.

Some things we 'know' are not necessarily true..Lavender to lavender may not be the problem...most breeders are using black to improve type by breeding lavender to black splits...feather issues are still there ???...I went way past F3 -F4 breeding blue to blue rocks, and they are very recognizable, with great feather quality....

There is also a very real difference between lavender and blue...blue is not just another dilute gene..the lavender is a true dilute, but blue is not really a diluter...it alters the amount of pigment, where lavender actually dilutes the amount...apples and oranges...

 

[samouw]

We already know that self-blue to self-blue will impact feather quality and self-blue is just another dilute gene. And, eventually, the blue might become so light as to be unrecognizable. If I had enough years left, and the space to do it, it would be very interesting to see the F3 or F4 generation of blue to blue...but I don't have the space and doubt I have that much energy.

Some things we 'know' are not necessarily true..Lavender to lavender may not be the problem...most breeders are using black to improve type by breeding lavender to black splits...feather issues are still there ???...I went way past F3 -F4 breeding blue to blue rocks, and they are very recognizable, with great feather quality

Don't have them, don't want them, so can't argue the point.

I'd be very interested to see pics of your F3-F4 gen of blue to blue rocks

 

[Catandherchicks]

Wow! Thank goodness for you serious breeders with all that biology science and genetics. As a "person on the street", I like both the light and dark blues. (They're just pretty birds.) So I don't think you'll ever have trouble selling your culls while working toward your goals. Who can resist a blue hen that lays a blue egg. (I will have one someday; hopefully soon.) Keep it up folks!

 

[FowlStuff]

I never heard this breeding history before about the Black Ameraucanas. So glad to have caught this post! Because Lorps have SCs is it possible that is why a BBS Ameraucana can pop up with a SC rather than Peacomb in later generations? Kinda the way a Rosecomb Dominique can hatch a SC chick because of the mixed history in its ancestry?

I'm with Jerry on this. A single comb should not pop up on an Ameraucana and I don't remember the last time it may have happened.
Single combs popping up on rosecomb breeds after decades of not breeding from them is a problem.

 

[tigercreek]

I'd be very interested to see pics of your F3-F4 gen of blue to blue rocks

Wouldn't swear to the generation, but this guy is somewhere around F3 or 4...he's in my album ..

 

[samouw]

Wouldn't swear to the generation, but this guy is somewhere around F3 or 4...he's in my album ..

Well, he's very pretty, but he also has the barring going on, so I'm not sure if tells me anything about the repeated breeding blue to blue. Looking at his fluff, it looks like a medium pale blue. What were the colors that you started with?

 

[tigercreek]

Well, he's very pretty, but he also has the barring going on, so I'm not sure if tells me anything about the repeated breeding blue to blue. Looking at his fluff, it looks like a medium pale blue. What were the colors that you started with?

Thank you...he was nice...he does have barring going on...very similar to lacing genetically....not sure what you consider 'clear bluish slate' per the SOP, but that looks pretty close to me...it certainly is not what I would call 'pale blue'....I have shown you, using your own reference material that lacing requires Pg, Co., and Ml....I have shown you and told you of my experience breeding blue....you still want to argue, and breed to black, good luck with that, but please don't ask why you don't have proper lacing....I can't explain it any better, and don't think it would matter to you if I did...reminds me of one of the reasons I'm no longer in the ABC....going to discontinue this discussion...I just don't see the point, and I don't want to monopolize the thread...

 

[samouw]

Thank you...he was nice...he does have barring going on...very similar to lacing genetically....not sure what you consider 'clear bluish slate' per the SOP, but that looks pretty close to me...it certainly is not what I would call 'pale blue'....I have shown you, using your own reference material that lacing requires Pg, Co., and Ml....I have shown you and told you of my experience breeding blue....you still want to argue, and breed to black, good luck with that, but please don't ask why you don't have proper lacing....I can't explain it any better, and don't think it would matter to you if I did...reminds me of one of the reasons I'm no longer in the ABC....going to discontinue this discussion...I just don't see the point, and I don't want to monopolize the thread...

And i thought we were having a good discussion. I've agreed with most of what you've said, but i am an analyst, both by nature and by profession. I'm not sure what you were expecting.

(sigh)