Animal control is on its way...Update post 73...

[newchicksnducks]

Wow...this thread has gone on for quite a while, and a lot of heat has been vented:/ I hope no one takes what the others say too harshly...this is a place to tell your "opinion" on the matter that was posted...just like the other person can give their "opinion".

IMHO - I have a 4 yr old golden retriever. When we first brought our chicks home, there is now way I would have let her alone with them! Not that she would have attempted to hurt them in any way, but she would have wanted to play with them...and the result would have been hurt chicks. The chickens are now 18-26 weeks old and they spend hours out in the yard together. She knows they're not her toys, and basically leaves them alone (except to follow them for their "leavings" in the grass!) BUT...if she were a more aggressive dog, she would never be allowed outside alone. And that is how the the original writers dog should be - never alone outside. But since the owner is not taking responsiblity for his dog, I would do my best to care for my birds. The addition of a relatively inexpensive electric livestock fencing would go a long way to detering a visiting dog. This might be a good addition. Good luck!

 

[citrusdreams]

Quote:
LOL exactly

My neighbors would be spending a fortune as nothing keeps them in but a kennel with a top. They get though that wood horse fencing, electric fencing, invisible fencing, chainlink, cattle panel, field fencing... basically anything they can climb over like a ladder, run through, or scramble under. I'd love it if they fenced in my property

It would probably have to be something like field fencing with a strand of electric running about 8-10 inches off the bottom and a strand on top. And oh yeah, they'd have to trim the foliage under it, all across the acreage, so that the foliage doesn't short out that bottom strand. Do you think they'd mind doing that? And while they don't mind if their dogs harass their own livestock, I do mind.

 

[citrusdreams]

Quote:
I am curious about what kind of fencing would keep dogs out? I can only envision miles and miles of stockade type fencing. I know I am a 'ditz' sometimes...lol.

The only fencing options for horse/cattle here are high tensile wire/ barbed wire or rail fencing.

No, you're not a 'ditz'. I believe that's a point some of us are trying to make to some of the less experienced/seasoned people here. It only takes one, sometimes two, strands of electric to keep cows in. It takes goat panel or several strands of electric to keep goats in, perhaps a combination if you have crafty goats. It takes about six feet of some fencing to keep chickens in. It takes a few bars of wood to keep horses in. Barbed wire is dangerous for goats can cause abscesses. Dogs? If they can climb it like a ladder, go under it, or just jump over it like oh...may dogs...then it is more off a challenge. Some dogs bite though cables, some pull chains apart. Some dig under their kennels. It takes a lot more to keep a dog contained. Um...that's why they're so problematic. A problem dog is a problem to manage. That's another reason why training is so essential.

When I lived in the city, a four foot chainlike fence was more than sufficient to contain my dogs. Now that I live in the country, invisible fencing keeps them all in. When you have a prey driven dog that goes insane every time it sees potential prey, and it further does not respect its owner, that owner has to jump through hoops to keep the dogs contained if they're not disciplined and trained.

You and I who have neighbors who don't care, know that it's not that simple to keep other people's dogs out. It's quite expensive. I would have to contain my entire property in with field fencing augmented with two strands of electric. Then I'd have to regularly check the paremeter to make sure foliage, or debris blown by the wind, doesn't short out the bottom one. I don't need that much to contain my own animals. After spending all I spend to contain my own animals, why on earth should I do it to finance the neighbors?

 

[citrusdreams]

Quote:
I couldn't agree more. People's pets (just like their children) reflect their personalities, that can be good or it can be bad.

I think a lot of it has to do with how passionate people feel about the treatment of animals, all animals. I really do. Sometimes we lose our tempers on this forum but we all share our love for animals. And I hope I never come across as rude, I really try not to. Sometimes it's hard to get your point across in finding a balance between polite and rude.

And during the time I've been on this forum, I've seen people retract what they've so passionately claimed to be the beginning and the end of morality, truth, and absolute right. It comes with experience. When someone gets to the point of experiencing devestating loses despite building Fort Knox, believe me, they'll come around

This is a particularly volatile part of the forum because it tugs on people's heart strings. I don't think anyone wants to see an animal suffer. What kind of person is that?

I think it HAS to be hard for a dog-lover to read about dogs being shot because of "blame" or "necessity" etc. And it has to be hard for them to contain that passion. They can't relate to the problems others have had for a long time. And until they get some of those experiences under their belt, it will be hard for them. Before I got livestock, it wouldn't occur to me to shoot a dog at all. It didn't occur to me that they could actually do the damage they can do.

For me, it's really hard to be told that I have to go the extra mile to protect other people's animals, especially when those others don't care about ther own. Of course they wouldn't mind if I spent $45,000+ on fencing to keep their dogs out. Why would they? Why should they incur the cost of fencing their dogs in when they could be roaming the country side with Bambi and Flower? I love my dogs to bits and spend a fortune on them to keep them safe and healthy, but I just can't afford to care for someone else's dogs. It's hard for me to see animals suffer. But on the flip side, I know when to throw in the towel and recognize trouble for what it is. It took a long time for me to pick up a gun, and it truly disturbs me when I do. I mean, I don't even have the guts to hunt. But protecting my family? that doesn't take much anymore.

So while people bicker on the forum, I really think it's because they care so much. You'll always have a troll here and there, and you can usually tell one right away, especially when they post stuff for the obvious purpose of antagonising other members, but for the most part, I just think people let their passion take over them. I'm glad they feel strongly about something.

Remember, some people don't care at all...and I think that's worse. Despite being occasionally frustrated by a kind of caustic post, I'd rather have that than someone who doesn't care at all.

 

[thegreypony]

Excellent post, citrusdreams. We've had issues with a loose dog in our neighborhood...he's killed cats, cornered several older people on their decks/porches, run cattle, etc. He decimated our daughter's 4-H flock 2 weeks ago. The owners know of the trouble this dog causes and choose to do nothing despite the complaints filed. The list of this dog's offenses go on and on. And AC can't do a thing about removing the dog if the dog isn't around when they come out. BUT the reality is the dog is just being a dog - just like our Boxer who is often used for pet therapy but would certainly kill a chicken if no one was there to put him at down-stay. The neighbor's loose dog is wired to do what he's doing to a degree (the cornering old people who try to shoo him away...questionable).

I probably shouldn't even be posting since i got slammed the other day with my "pepper the fannies of the dog owners with rat shot" post but it gets to that point. Let me clarify too that rat shot never killed anyone but it sure does sting something fierce. The owners of loose dogs aren't being responsible!

After over a decade of work in animal rescue, starting a non-profit for breed specific rescue, vol countless hours as hospital staff at the local animal shelter/animal control....the thought of killing anything is repulsive to me. BUT we do now have a loaded gun at the door. The laws and ordinances are not sufficient to protect our livestock. We've had dogs running our goats and horses in the past and only by the grace of God and swift and sure kick from a mare that sent one dog to the vet to the tune of $1000 did the owners start keeping the dog up. Around here we're advised to live by the 3 S Rule: Shoot, shovel, and shut up.

It just sucks that the dogs pay the price for negligent owners...it always goes back to the owners.

 

[citrusdreams]

Quote:
I didn't see where you got slammed for the rat shot post, but unfortunately, the way the law is written, it's prudent to shoot to kill. If you shoot a dog with paint balls, pepper shots, etc, the owner can turn around and make *you* the bad guy for "abusing" their dog. I, OTOH, would appreciate paint instead of bullets, but you know, you and I actually care about our dogs

It's beyond my comprehension as to why owners don't care enough about their dogs to keep them in. That's what makes it hard on the OP as well. She cares about the neighbor's dog too. We all just have a choice: watch our chickens being torn apart, or take action (whatever action we have available) to protect them.

It would truly devestate me if something happened to one of my dogs. So I don't get why some people would purposely put their dogs in a dangerous situation. It doesn't matter if the dangers are bullets, diseases, cars, or whatever. If you can't contain them, you can't keep them safe.

And before it starts up: I am not talking about people who live in harmony with neighbors and their non-destructive dogs who run at large. I have those too. I'm talking about people who know their dogs are stirring up trouble and know they won't come home one day because of it.

Hopefully, the OP's neighbors still haven't retreived their dog from doggy jail. it'd be better if that dog went to a rescue and got properly trained and rehomed. One can hope anyway.

 

[satay]

Quote:
I am curious about what kind of fencing would keep dogs out? I can only envision miles and miles of stockade type fencing. I know I am a 'ditz' sometimes...lol.

The only fencing options for horse/cattle here are high tensile wire/ barbed wire or rail fencing.

It's kinda like chicken wire only stronger and has square holes. If I can later i'll take a picture of it for you. It keeps out dogs and foxes but the kangaroos just jump it and the koalas climb over it lol They don't hurt chickens so it doesn't matter.

 

[Camelot Farms]

Ooooh. I am a ditz. We have that option here to. I think its called woven wire and usually used here for sheep and goats. Very expensive.

I have 1400 ft of paddock with 5 strand high tensile and had the guy quote me for the woven in case I wanted to put goats in and it would be 1200.00 just to put up the fence as I already have the posts and gate.

Thank you for the explanation

 

[Boyd]

Quote:
I am curious about what kind of fencing would keep dogs out? I can only envision miles and miles of stockade type fencing. I know I am a 'ditz' sometimes...lol.

The only fencing options for horse/cattle here are high tensile wire/ barbed wire or rail fencing.

It's kinda like chicken wire only stronger and has square holes. If I can later i'll take a picture of it for you. It keeps out dogs and foxes but the kangaroos just jump it and the koalas climb over it lol They don't hurt chickens so it doesn't matter.

I have a pit mix that can climb trees, unless it has square holes and his toes can fit in it, he can climb it. No fence is 100%... and unless you bury it 2-3 foot down its useless against a motivated dog. Fencing in property to make it dog proof would be 3 parts.. Bury the fencing 2-3 foot, top it with razor wire....... and electrify everything to 50,000 volts.

Bottom line is this.. Responsible owners keep track of their dogs 100% of the time.

 

[satay]

Quote:
It's kinda like chicken wire only stronger and has square holes. If I can later i'll take a picture of it for you. It keeps out dogs and foxes but the kangaroos just jump it and the koalas climb over it lol They don't hurt chickens so it doesn't matter.

I have a pit mix that can climb trees, unless it has square holes and his toes can fit in it, he can climb it. No fence is 100%... and unless you bury it 2-3 foot down its useless against a motivated dog. Fencing in property to make it dog proof would be 3 parts.. Bury the fencing 2-3 foot, top it with razor wire....... and electrify everything to 50,000 volts.

Bottom line is this.. Responsible owners keep track of their dogs 100% of the time.

I'm sorry if i have managed to offend people with my information about what we do here to keep dogs out. I was in no way implying that you should all race out and fence your yards if you don't want to just simply suggesting what we do here to keep dogs etc out. I realise that no fence can be 100% guaranteed to keep everything out but this is the best option I have found.